Generational wealth differences

[KeenGreen]

My first AIBU so let’s see what I’m in for!

First to make clear none of the problems now are the fault of previous generations. It is not a blame game!!

So AIBU to be frustrated with the rhetoric that todays generations of young families have it no harder than previous generations in terms of wealth and they just need to be more frugal to have the same standard of living??

I am sick of hearing the idea that older generations. So called boomers (for the record I don’t like this term) didn’t have it easier than younger generations.

I am 38 I have worked since I was 16, lived independently since 17. Put myself through university all the way through to PhD. My husband is 39 works in a school as support staff (LSA) and takes up circa £1200 a month. He has a degree.
I work in a university and earn just under £50K before tax so our household income is probably about £65K not the lowest by any stretch but enough for us to struggle to balance costs. We claim child benefit but otherwise no extra help.
Husband only works term time of course, but that means he’s around for our child during holidays.

We have one DC age 5, and can’t afford any more.
Our closest family lives over 2 hours away, so we have no family support with childcare or help if there is a sick day or anything.

We have a mortgaged small semi detached 1930s house with 3 bedrooms, It needs a lot of work but we haven’t been able to do much because of time and money. Current mortgage fix ends in 2026 and I expect our mortgage repayments to go up by about 50% extra £300 a month.

We pay off student loans and my pension contributions are also high.
I took only 6 months maternity leave because I couldn’t afford to go to half pay for long and not into no pay at all.

My husband had virtually nothing in his workplace pension because of low earnings.
Mine is keep being devalued because of sector changes and it’s definitely not the best pension in education. (Teachers pensions are better).
I can’t even imagine what it will be like to try and live off my workplace pension alone and I would have to go all the way up to retirement age which I can’t imagine myself doing in a stressful job.

Retirement age for us is currently 68, that means we have 30 more years.
But with the way things are going I have no hope that there will be a state pension at all for us, or the age will be pushed even higher, so will probably be dead! Despite the fact I will have been paying in with tax national insurance for 50 plus years by that point.

I just feel frustrated about this idea that I hear people say that our generation just needs to work harder, or get better paid jobs etc because it’s not that easy. We both work hard in the education sector. Enjoy our jobs for the most part and find them fulfilling albeit stressful at times!

Like I said not about blaming previous generations for the picture we are in, but I don’t like the rhetoric of ‘well interest rates went up to 15% in my day’ etc when house prices were so much lower in proportion to wages and the cost of living right now and inflation over the last 10 years shows wages haven’t increased in line with this.

ps I know we are not the most hard done by! But still feel the pinch and we certain don’t live an extravagant lifestyle!

Every generation has its own problems. People seem to forget there was a nasty recession in the late eighties / early nineties.

Both my father and father in jaw were made redundant in their fifties and and couldn’t get another job. Previously, people had jobs for life, And being sacked was a badge of dishonour. It was tough, very tough.

I had friends who brought houses who then went into negative equality. They were stuck for years because then it was hard to move in a negative equity situation. Eventually the system changed and it became a debt you took with you.

You are 38. You are the same generation as me. I don’t recognise anything about your post as being common to our generation.

However I think most people accept that the younger generation- those currently in their early 20s - will have a much harder time than our generation is having.

I am sorry that you are having a difficult time, but it is not generational.

Your husband needs to get a better job - I wouldn't be happy bringing in 50k whilst he brings in £15k and has a degree!

I disagree to a certain point because in previous generations the standard of living, the expectation was poorer. My parents couldn't afford to buy at first, my mum was the higher earner but was sacked effectively for being pregnant because not statutory maternity leave and it was legal to let women go. Oil crises hit and houses doubled in cost to 6-7 x my dad's income and mum had been sacked remember. There was no in work benefits like today for lower earners, then my dad was let go ... life wasn't easy in the 70's m, very tough and many like my parents didn't have a home phone and even a fridge wasn't universal (my grandparents finally got one in mid 70's.

I'm not suggesting we live without phones or fridges but this 70 something boomers had it tough in their 20's, id say far tougher than my dc who are currently in their 20's, they are both house hunting, saved deposits up working because wages are proportionately higher than when I or my parents generation were their age

To the people saying why doesn't your DH earn more, I never understand this about right wing thinking, who do they think should do the less well paid jobs, which are usually the ones that are actually essential to society. Why should people have to aspire to earning more when they already do a job they are good at and which contributes meaningfully?

OP it's clear that things are harder for this generation. For example my parents lived on one teacher's income in London with three DC. They bought a house with no family help at all. I have the same job my dad had but there is no way I could do that - we only bought a house thanks to a deposit from DH's inheritance and we can only just support 2 DC on two teachers' salaries.

My DM did a similar school based low paid job to your DH. This was in no way enough to live on, even back then. So, she also did a cleaning job at weekends or a nightshift in a supermarket and picked up extra money in various other casual roles (e.g. Avon type things). She worked 7 days per week, on top of my DF's "main" wage. He also had a weekend side job. There were plenty of comfortable boomers - but there are comfortable people today too.

I do think that they didn't appreciate the value of their pensions. However, they were promised them, and were fully entitled to them. It has put them in a position of being more well off in retirement than they have ever felt before. But that doesn't mean they had an easy life.

I do think older generations have lived through a rare time where wealth creation was easier. My mum bought a council home on a low skilled wage on her own, which we couldn't do with two professional jobs. I think this is why we have a productivity issue in the UK. Housing is the source of so many problems, but nobody ever fixes it because they don't want to upset existing homeowners.

That said, you can't really blame older generations for trying to be self reliant. Policy has caused this issue, but it would be nice if older generations acknowledged things are harder and demand better equality for future generations.

My family have seen how hard it has been for me raising two kids working FT (one with SEND) but it took a while to convince them I think.

Exactly. The Mumsnet answer to COL is let's all be CEOs!

It isn't right wing thinking to suggest to someone complaining about finding life unaffordable that an adult with relevant experience to a better paid fairly secure career that still offers the important term time holidays of which there are now funded routes etc so don't miss out on a wage coming in is worth considering. Of course these jobs are important, some people will be able to afford to do them forever, some will do them for x years before progressing or doing something else, and others realise that sadly it's not an option for them because of pay- same as any job really.

YANBU when you mention the rhetoric around intergenerational unfairness.

YABU in your specific circumstances. At 40 (20 years ago) I took stock, went through Martin Lewis' mega annual spreadsheet on outgoings and did a reality check with our finances and then got a job with a good DB pension. This was in the context of losing my DM when she was 64 and sorting my DDad's finances and wondering what they were going to live on (still had a mortgage!)

There's so much more on line to be financially savvy.

I joined Mumsnet in 2005 (different username obvs) and had no idea that other people were expecting free childcare from their family. As the higher earner I funded this from my salary. I went back to work after having DS1 at 12 weeks/DS2 at 16 weeks. That might be relevant to where you are careerwise.

I took a risk on a big mortgage and didn't pay it back early, invested payrises in pension.

YANBU looking at other families and thinking that 2 good salaries would make for a better quality of life but YABU in not seeing what you have and making peace with the decisions you have presumably jointly made.

Unless you are planning to kill off older people those 10 million are needed to provide services and care for them.

Also the 10 million aren't static. Some of my friends, former neighbours and former colleagues were part of that number. They no longer live and work in the UK as they decided they can take their expertise elsewhere in the world.

On the other hand thanks to an authoritarian government I have new British neighbours. Though they won't be as economically productive as the people I know who have left due to their age.

Also my own DD goes to school in an area where schools are closing down because there are not enough children. There are still plenty of people but they are mostly old.

I knew you'd get flamed op
Todays young have it so much harder. I know that's not a view that's welcomed on here , but it's true.

I think one of the major differences is that, living in the social media age we can now see " how the other half" live.
I'm Gen x. When I grew up I really only knew people like me so I didn't really feel like I had less. Now with all the images of easy wealth it's easy to feel resentment and look for someone to blame and feel hard done by. But I lived with my "boomer" parents and I know the sacrifices they made and the reality of their life.
We all live in the time we live in. Complaints about this generation or that generation had it harder/ easier is just a waste of time and energy. The key is setting your priorities and working to achieve them. The OP's partner chooses to have a part-time lower paying job? That's absolutely fine, as long as they don't complain that they can't afford the house/ lifestyle they want.

You're exactly the same as previous generations with families who didn't earn much. The difference today is very low income families can have their income topped up by benefits which you miss out on. If you need more money why doesn't you or your husband get a pt job at night. Bar work or delivery driver. That's what I did when my kids were younger.

Exactly this
Far too much " I only work PT but it's not fair I can't have.."
Blaming Boomers is pointless
It's happened, it's a blip that will probably never happen again
Interestingly Millenials will be the wealthiest generation when that Boomer wealth is inherited.
Some how I cant see them moaning about that!😂

Your husband is on less than minimum wage, it sounds like you can't afford for him to be.

I assume his very low wage is because he works part time? Can he at least get full time work?

I am older than the OP and recognise that young families are struggling and that I had many advantages:

• my education was paid for all the way through - fees and maintenance for first degree and post grad. I left uni with no debts. I was utterly shocked when university tuition fees and student loans came in when my children went to uni.
• there were many employment opportunities when I left uni and I fell straight into a job, and could have had my pick of many others.
• I was able to retire at 60.
• as a widowed retired person I am able to manage financially but only in the sense that my house is paid off and I have enough to heat and eat. I am by no means rich. The stereotype of the cruise-going retiree is only true of a small minority.

I am grateful for these advantages, but we had our own challenges:

• Mortgage interest rates were astronomic - sometimes over 10% - and gobbled up much of our salaries.
• we had no expectation of holidays - these happened as our careers progressed and we accumulated some money, and even then we did not initially go abroad. We did not have, nor expect to have, all the labour-saving devices that young families now have. We never went out for meals - ever - it was unheard of and again only became possible later in life.

I agree that overall we did have it easier and I am grateful for that, but the other side of that was that our expectations were lower. What is seen as deprivation now is very different from the 70's.

My career was in social work and inevitably I was acutely aware of the people I worked with who were struggling financially and in many other ways - it was not easy for all of us. There were many people who were financially deprived and lived in slums - serious slums; often Victorian back-to-backs with poor sanitation.

There were, then as now, career opportunities for women and I took full advantage of them, but made the choice to be a SAHM for 5 years - the expectation that both parents would prioritise their careers was not the same then - parenting was up there as a valid career choice. The idea of being in a job and paying 90% of your salary in child care costs would have been seen as crazy back then. My choices did not hold back my career in any way.

I have done my utmost to help my family - with child care (so that they do not incur so much in child care costs) and with small sums of money when I am able, as I realise that some young families do struggle now.

I very much feel for young families who are struggling, and I would like to see some government initiatives to improve things - but that is I think somewhat over-optimistic. Successive governments have failed young families, especially those who are truly deprived.

Why doesn’t your husband train to teach? He would immediately almost triple his salary.

I don’t know, my parents have done remarkably well, and I do think but they were lucky enough to be able to live off my dads wage, however my mum did work to (similar to your DH) but it wasn’t the same life style, we never ate out as children, I had my first takeaway at 16, we always had second hand furniture until I was late teens, I had a school uniform, a play dress and a church outfit. when they couldn’t afford to run the car my dad walked the 3 miles to work with holes in his shoes because they prioritised school shoes for us. So I can kind of see where Boomers come from when they say it was a different lifestyle.

You have chosen to remain in academia, DH and I worked in HE. DH was easily the lowest paid of all his friends who had a PhD, his salary topped out at 70k as head of dept and as high as you could go without becoming a complete paper pusher in purely management. His friend was earning more than that soon after they graduated in the city in the early 2000’s.

Your DH doesn’t need a degree to work as school admin support, what led him to this choice?

The cost of housing versus wages is the issue it was x3 average wage for an average house and now it’s x8 or even x9 average house price x average wage.

So whilst I agree with you, it is harder the missing element is how devalued degrees are now. Around 12% had a degree when DH and I were at University last year now it’s about 38%. So you both expected better but they are just not as valuable.

Having a degree now seems almost like the equivalent of having O levels when I was young, only 20% of children even sat them. has the world improved radically because the standard of education is now higher?

Interestingly Millenials will be the wealthiest generation when that Boomer wealth is inherited. - I suspect that I, as a boomer, will have very little to leave once my future care costs are taken into account - so don't anyone hold their breath for a big legacy!!

The problem is your salaries. Especially your husband. With a degree he could be earning way more.

Exactly. Its also the case that for many families having a SAHP/part time worker meant a different quality of living to today. Plenty of things considered essential and expected now simply weren't when I was growing up. It's good that people want a higher standard now and I'm not saying that we should wish to regress; but the narrative always excludes swathes of families who were struggling financially. The opportunities weren't accessible to all, and there wasn't as much support.

You’ll find very skewed opinions on this here on middle class south east of England net. However, YANBU, wealth creation was inherently easier in previous generations.

People have to work a lot harder for a lot less now. Every well paying job requires a degree and even with said well playing job the majority of people in their 20’s, 30s and even 40s are renting. The knock on effect this will have when we are older, still have to pay rent and also don’t have a state pension because it’s been scrapped, is going to be huge.

People will tell you tales of how they had it tough in a front room and kitchen and no heating and that is of course true. However they had something young people today dont have, hope and opportunity to better themselves. It’s the hopelessness of the current situation that is so so dire.

YANBU - the difference is pretty manifest when you consider my parents bought a 5-bed detached house that was worth about x3 my dad's salary when they were both 31.

We bought a family-sized home 10 years ago when I was 37 and DH 42 and it was worth x8 our combined salaries (both paid above national average salaries) and was only possible because in inheritence meant we had two properties to sell (the flat I owned with DH, and the house I bought and lived in before I met him and rented out subsequently). And we're the fortunate end in that I had the inheritence that enabled us to do this. But we're not going to be able to be 'the bank of mum and dad', at least not if our kids want to remain in or near London (where we are) - a broom cupboard costs quarter of a million now and we are not going to have £100k+ for each child. Bearing in mind I don't foresee either of ours wanting to work megabucks jobs, nor would I expect them to have to.

Some people, usually wealthier ones - don't understand that home ownership is not just 'a few years of scrimping and saving' anymore, it's literally impossible for some people when they have to pay rent and childcare costs to put away the kind of money they'd need. I do think plenty of less advantaged people do 'get' the situation of younger people though.