This is not a goady post - does Putin really want to go after the rest of the former Soviet Union ?

[boombopbam]

I'm not trying to annoy posters by asking this question. It's just that I'm increasingly coming across a lot of people who are increasingly supporting the likes of Trump and the far right in general in other countries ( Germany, Italy ) and who genuinely believe Trump is doing the right thing by aligning with Putin ( messing over the Ukraine in the process ).

They believe that Russia will stop at Ukraine and there is no evidence that they'll go further than that and therefore we should stay the fuck out of it/ stop arming UK and get them to settle their conflict. Because carrying on supporting Ukraine will lead to WW3.

I'm trying to understand if Russia will continue and actually try to go further than Ukraine or not on one hand. On the other hand, should we just stand by and watch let Russia win ? It's also not right, but is it our business ?

Again, not trying to inflame the situation on here. I'm just trying to learn about different point of views as I'm bombarded with the far right thing in real life at the moment.

I don't get how pretty much everyone I know is being turned to support the far right.

Read the others posts (or numerous newspaper articles) on this subject. Ukraine has been under martial law since 2022. The Ukrainian Constitution forbids national elections to be held during times of martial law. Both the opposition parties and the majority of Ukrainians agree elections should wait until the end of the war, when they can be held freely and fairly.

NATO is a defensive alliance. Putin knows this. Article 5 has only been invoked once and that was after 9/11. NATO is an excuse for him to expand and regain the USSR pretending Russia needs a buffer zone. It's horseshit.

@LifeExperience when did zelensky campaign for the democrats in October?

When he visited armament factories to thank them for the support?

We're already seeing a quite unsubtle reversal in the press coverage of the Ukrainian conflict. The Mail (long time appeasement supporters) has started to drip feed bad copy about Zelensky. The right wing US media and their unholy allies on Social Media have already reframed him as an actor, a puppet, a conman and thief and now a dictator. Sickening irony. And now we have the chief liar Boris Johnson chipping in.

Putin Wont want any of the Stans, but he's been eyeing the Baltics for a while. And now Trump and his team of sociopaths are giving him the mandate

Russian people are generally poor and live basic lives. Imagine if they had a leader that invested in them rather than the millions of rubles wasted on a "quick special operation" in Ukraine, let alone the mothers/wives/children that have lost 100'000s of their men to the meat grinder.

I jusr don't get it?

Putin is a criminal. He's probably the richest man in the world. Russia is a kleptocracy. Putin doesn't rule for the Russian people. He rules for his mafia. That's the tragedy of Russia.

I wouldn’t be surprised if his next tactic is to fund / support the Serbs to take the Serbian parts of Bosnia back. The Balkans and the Baltic must surely be on his radar.

At one point there was photograph of the president of Belarus stood next to a map showing the invasion of Moldova by Russia.

Putin would love to rebuild his empire. If he can is another story.

Agree and such a shame. I always wanted to visit Moscow when the iron curtain fell, seems they've gone back in time. Sadly the people suffer.

Thank you

Surface to surface:
. Iskander missiles (short range): 500km+
. Oreshnik (medium range): Initial open source reports suggest a 2500-3500km range
. RS-29 Sarmat also known as SS-X-29/SS-X-30 Satan II (long range): Initial reports indicate a 18,000km range

This article here covers a bit about the Oreshnik after it was used against Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg07zw9vj1o

This is just a bit of missile pawn for those interested:
https://missilethreat.csis.org/country_tax/russia/

Air to surface missiles:
. AS-24 Killjoy: 460-480km
. AS-22 Kazoo: 400km
. Kh-32: 600-1000km
. Kh-55 and Kh-55SM: 2500km and 3000km

The more dangerous of these missiles are launched from the Tu-22M3 Backfire and the Tu-160 Blackjack (what regularly flies past the UK).
The big ones could be launched from Russian airspace and target ourselves (we are defenceless). Something Putin has threatened if StormShadows (which Starmer authorised) keep being used by Ukraine to target infrastructure within Russia.

Surface to air missiles:
Sa-21: 400km range

F-35s would be at the lower end risk wise with it being stealth.
However (another faux par by Biden) these are now potentially at risk as Biden pushed through paperwork late last year for Turkey to rejoin the F-35 program. They were expelled by Trump during his first term after they signed a deal to acquire Sa-21s from Russia.

That would essentially leave UK/US/NATO with zero fighter aircraft to have to use that could operate with some small degree of safety in missile engagement zones.

And as is well known, one of the biggest factors of winning a conflict with a nation state actor is establishing air superiority and air supremacy early on.

Half incorrect.

Here is a link to US ballistic missiles deployed in Europe and their ranges in regards to Russia.
There's some nice graphics in there.

https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/online-analysis/2024/08/the-return-of-long-range-us-missiles-to-europe/#:~:text=Amid%20Putin%27s%20war%20in%20Ukraine,seeking%20to%20acquire%20their%20own.

The defeated candidate (pro Russia and anti EU) in Moldivan elections last year under investigation for bribery, $$$$ given to people to vote for him and to vote against closer relations with the EU.
He was defeated due in part to votes cast against him by the Moldovans living and working across Europe...
www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz7w9dglzzlo

It may well be Georgia, if the population ever manages to unseat the puppet government Ivanishvili installed there.

It dates back much further than that. Zelensky refused to take part in a mud-slinging exercise against Biden way back in 2019. When it became public it ended in Trump's first impeachment (not that this ultimately did anything, as the impeachment process is useless)

It's not just the military, there are also millions of refugees, both internally displaced and scattered across Europe. The UK didn't hold elections during the First World War or the Second. They were wars of national survival, not overseas adventures. It's quite normal for countries to invoke some sort of emergency powers in these circumstances. The US has never been threatened in this way so Americans wouldn't understand.

Sorry I didn’t mean to imply the Estonians would just roll over. I know they will fight to the last man and woman. Just that it’s a tiny population for the size of country.

I would really really hope nato would step in. Otherwise all bets are off surely ?

Im not one to worry about the news but I’m very concerned.

@DdraigGoch it was a massive - and well organised- vote for Labour from serving soldiers still overseas that helped Labour to their 1945 landslide. Churchill went for a snap election very soon after the end of the war, gambling on his own personal kudos for winning the war. He was wrong.

@BitOutOfPractice No problem, I didn't take it that way; I just think it's important to point out to those reading these threads, who may have little or no knowledge of this element of history (I don't mean you, I mean in general), that just because a country is small doesn't mean they will give up or be easily defeated. It leads to a defeatist attitude where people who really should have no say in the matter start promoting appeasement. Putin thought he'd crush Ukraine in 10 days. 3 years later, they are still standing.

As for NATO, well, it was formed to guard against Russian aggression...but it's open knowledge they are not as well equipped for war as they could be and, whilst an attack on one is an attack on all, that Article doesn't actually commit allies to providing military support, just that they show some form of response. It would up to each individual nation to decide whether to commit troops, weapons, aid, financial support etc. I really hope that if the war spreads, they all fight for each other using every resource they've got, but you never know what's going to happen.

He obviously wont go after Nato countries. Personally I dont think he'll have the appetite to try and invade any other countries, only because his weapons and warfare are getting very depleted. People turning to the far right is a different issue. People are increasingly concerned about terrorist attacks, and obviously we're having people coming here whose backgrounds and values are unknown to us. Plus our infrastructure doesnt support further incomers.

This ^

It's wishful thinking that Putin won't go after NATO countries. He's been preparing for a war with NATO for some time, as frequent intelligence communities continue to warn. (There are more recent articles than the one below, but this is in English.)

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-preparing-military-confrontation-with-west-says-estonia-2024-02-13/

He's also maintained and updated his plans for a potential multi-front offensive against NATO’s eastern flank. And whilst he has no compunction against whizzing through lives like there's no tomorrow, it's extremely unwise to assume he's not building up weapons reserves. Whilst he doesn't currently have the power to attack a NATO state, while actively at war with Ukraine, he would have that capability if the war ended or stalled.

Totally agree

It's no surprise to me that the people who couldnt cope with the reality of pandemic are now turning to Trump.

It's really noticeable that those with a psychological vulnerability seem to gloss over the monstrousness of trump being aligned with putin. Perhaps it comforts them to just subjugate themselves. A bit like the women who want to be the cool girls because they think it protects them from patriarchy.

Our society is going to need to toughen up. And fast.

Err ? Trump really likes Starmer, never had a good word to say about Sunak.... or Badenoch.
Labour never campaigned on behalf of Harris, individuals did, in their own time, unpaid....

Zelenskyy hedged his bets, Trump has never liked the guy, called Putin a genius for invading Ukraine...

No poll said she had it in the bag, exact opposite.

It’s wild how people think Russia will stop at Ukraine when history shows that authoritarian leaders rarely stop unless they’re forced to. If Putin succeeds, why wouldn’t he push further? And even if he doesn’t, what message does it send to other authoritarian regimes if we just let invasions slide? The ‘stay out of it’ argument sounds nice in theory, but in reality, it often emboldens aggression. Also, I really don’t get the sudden shift towards far-right support in so many places. What’s changed that’s making people buy into it so easily? A quick google shows that Putin is 72 and Trump is 78. Why can’t they just retire and go off somewhere to golf and leave the world in peace 😭?

@Scammersarescum : "A bit like the women who want to be the cool girls because they think it protects them from patriarchy."

Naaailed it!