Uncomfortable interaction father/daughter - AIBU to report

[IrnBruAndTwiglets]

I’m hoping I can draw on the collective wisdom of Mumsnet on this. I’m unsettled by it and don’t know what the right thing to do is.

We were out with the kids today and come lunchtime nipped into a cheapish buffet place in the town we were in - the kids think it’s the best thing getting to go up and choose. Whilst he was up getting food, I noticed the table in front of us about 10 feet away had a middle aged man and a young girl, maybe 16, sitting beside each other. I’m not nosy and the kids are young so my focus is normally all on them but I felt uneasy right away.

He was leaning into the side of her face/neck, with his hand on her leg or round her back to her thigh on the other side and she was rubbing her stomach in a really exaggerated way over and over. After glancing over for a few mins, I was sure she was neurodivergent, I don’t mean to be offensive by saying that but she seemed a lot younger than her age and the stomach rubbing in a circle was more like a toddler than a teenager.

I was so unsettled by the intimacy/the way he was looking at her that I kept glancing over quickly. It looked a bit like he was instructing her to eat. A woman joined the table (similar age to man) so I’d went from wondering if there was a big age gap to thinking she’s his daughter.

I totally understand some families are more tactile than others, the thought crossed my mind she might have an ED and he was trying to encourage her but I just can’t get past the creepiness. It made my skin crawl and when my partner sat down at the table, he felt it was glaringly obvious too. The girl didn’t seem upset by the way her was with her. I just can’t shake the feeling it would have stood out even as an adult/adult interaction, the fact she was young and seemed vulnerable made it worse.

I’m sitting up thinking I want to say something. I have this real fear that she could be a victim of abuse at home but then I go - what am I supposed to tell the police. That I saw a man who was creepy? Realistically the police will do sweet FA with that information. They’re hardly going to investigate based on such limited info, I don’t have names etc, just what I saw and intuition.

I want to do something in case I’m right. I thought about reporting online to the police but it won’t accept a report for the postcode, has to be by phone.

AIBU to report or is this an uncomfortable situation that ultimately I have to accept I can’t do anything about, my intuition could be wrong and I haven’t technically witnessed a crime?

(sorry for the length!)

This type of observation and concern is a fine balance. I worry a lot in cafes and at the local public pool when I see what could well be creepy/peculiar interactions/touchings. Most of the things that worry me as a parent/grandparent are the ones where an older man is clearly 25-45 years older than girls who appear to be 6-14yo.

In summer 2022-23 here, I saw for about five days per week over a period of nearly a month a quite old man (75+) swimmimg near/with a girl who looked 11-12yo. My deduction was that he was her grandfather and that her dad/mum/parents were at work and the old bloke was looking after her until school term resumed.

My concern as I did my daily kickboard laps was that I observed (several times per day) how and WHERE he touched her as he handled her to flip her or hold her close. It seemed inappropriate a lot of the time and not just incidental.

By the third day, I asked the female lifeguard to note my concerns and to just observe the interaction. She deduced that it may be a "one-off" but that she would not be impressed if a grandparent touched or handled either of her teen daughters in such a way. I asked her to consider keeping the multi-camera CCTV with atimestamp note.

During the second week, the young girl, at one stage, left the pool to use the toilet and food kiosk. I struck up a conversation with the old man. I told him that I have many grandkids and they often swim with me and other family members and keeping track of them for 2-3 hours in the water makes me tired. He did have the child because her parents did have to resume work before the first post New Year weekend.

A few days later he gave me a wave on arrival at the pool. I again on three other days had cause to alert the lifeguards to his seemingly creepy touching of his granddaughter and asked the lifeguard if the staff knew the mum or dad.

Saw them a few times a year later (2023-24) but not at all this recent January.

I hope I was not overthinking the situation but it did not look completely right. Maybe, as a bloke with only one grandchild, the old fellow had no real idea how people with 21st century perceptions might see "handsy" contact with a big pre-teen girl.

Yes my youngest is nd and i often have to physically comfort him, same with my oldest, i would stroke him hair during medical appointments to keep him cam

How did the man react when the woman returned to the table, OP? Did he move away from the girl, or continue to cuddle her? I think that would give an idea of whether he was

But I really don't think there was anything you could have reported here.

Did his hand remain on her leg after the woman rejoined them at the table?

This sounds like a totally normal interaction that you've placed a seedy interpretation onto.

Parents of ND kids are judged all the time, we know what our kids respond to and how to manage our kids in situations that may trigger them, but while we are coping in the best way we can we also have to fend off dirty looks and judgement from people who aren't in the same position as us.

Her rubbing her stomach in the way she was may have been the start of a meltdown and he was trying to calm her down in a way she responds to.

The guy had his arm round his daughter who was rubbing her stomach?
It sounds like he was trying to calm as someone who was clearly in distress.

Agree with this.

Also you’ve not said much about the woman who sat with them. How did that interaction go? Did he stop with the girl? Or carry on as before? What was the woman doing?

Remember the guy at the snooker biting his son's ear? Yuck, but police took no further action.

Would the touch have seemed more appropriate if the child was younger? I’m struggling to picture the thigh description. But I will say that DD acts like a much younger child, especially out and about, and I find it jarring sometimes, never mind anyone else…

I would report it via crimestoppers website.

Here's why:

Regardless of the relationship it is possibly a child, or a young adult who lacks capacity, and who may be incredibly vulnerable.
A woman becoming present doesn't make it better, it makes it marginally better as we have a view that women don't abuse women and girls, and whilst this is largely true, it's also true that women are very much often first contacts with women and girls who are exploited.
It may be they are regulars there and other people have reported it, or that police are aware of similar reports from elsewhere and it helps to build a picture.

Gut instincts are important. The exist for a reason. So please do consider reporting even with the limited information as it may lead to nothing, but it could also be something that can be followed up.

Intuition is important and useful at flagging dangers to us. I don't know what, if anything, the police can and will do, but you can make the call and find out. Say what you have said here - you saw a middle aged man touching a young teen in a way that seemed inappropriate.

I was on a ferry once and happened to see a man chatting to a little girl who was on her own (her mother had gone to the bathroom and the child was waiting for her outside). I hadn't seen any of them before so had no idea whether they all travelled together/were related. But something about the interaction felt very, very wrong and the child looked uncomfortable. So I got up with my own young child and went to say hello to the little girl, asked her where her mother was and suggested I wait with her until her mother got back. The man looked mightily pissed off and the mother looked somewhat stunned to see two strange adults hovering around her child when she came out of the bathroom. Maybe it was an innocent interaction, but I don't think so and I'm glad I intervened.

Honestly, a hand on a thigh? Why would you jump to conclusions? As pp say, perhaps the girl was ND and needed the physical and emotional support. Perhaps she’s NT and going through a hard time. My teen son was upset the other day, he sat with my arm round him and my other hand was rubbing his knee whilst he explained what was wrong as that’s the kind of touch he needed. There’s nothing wrong with my actions, would you also consider reporting me? Both my teens lean into me when they’re upset and both live a cuddle.

One of my teens is ND, growing up when he was headed for a meltdown he needed pressure touch to support him. Deep pressure therapy, he needed tactile stimulation. As he has got older, the need has lessened but it’s still there

Personally I don’t think you witnessed anything . My oldest is 22 severe autistic and some of what you described keeps him calm . I know it’s easy for people to see more but chance is there is nothing wrong . My son often gives me his bad and loses me out of nowhere because it’s why he does if he feels overwhelmed . I’m sure to some seems weird .

My immediate thought is that she was distressed/unsettled, hence the continual stomach rubbing and he was trying to soothe her. If he was abusive, I don't think he'd do it in public, in front of his wife.

DS 13 - taller than me, hugs me tightly and sometimes puts his arm around my neck - so to others it might seem he is strangling me - but he isn’t. He’s autistic and doesn’t understand social queues. The amount of weird looks we receive while travelling.

I have to remind him that others might make assumptions even though I know he is harmless.

Other times I have to hug him when he needs comforting.

I sometimes rub his arms.

Similarly I saw an older ND boy kissing his mother on the face on the plane. It wasn’t inappropriate. It was a stressful time for him and his mother was his source of comfort for him.

If this girl was with both parents presumably distressed as she was touching her tummy, the father could have been comforting her. If you felt it was inappropriate you could have walked over to ask if everything is okay. No harm in that. Most people appreciate it.

The first thing that came to
mind for me with stomach rubbing was it may have been due to constipation? It’s quite common in autistic young people.