Agressive slandering neigbour and DWP data breach.

[slowlyloosingthewill]

Can't sleep for stress.
DWP sent my carer letters to my address as a care of address as agreed by me, as she was sofa surfing.

For unknown reasons they then changed it to violent next door neighbors address! (She does have a DWP claim)

NDN sat on this for some time. and no one else knew.
We now know that two years ago carer had received a single justice conviction and fine for an out of date student train ticket discount card, that she was unaware of. It's grown to £950 and a few months after she stated working with me bailiffs had been given next doors address by/via DWP and went there. Neighbor sat on that for a few months too.

Then out it all came along with allegations that a UC claim had also been applied for, and a catalogue supposedly set up, and defaulted on over £550, supposedly with bailiffs too. But, no paperwork, just shouting NDN.
TBH wasn't sure if we should believe her.

Weeks later NDN finally handed over one DWP letter and the bailiff letter only,
DWP say no UC claim ever made, NDN wont give even the name of catalogue, let alone paperwork. Carers credit score hasn't changed. Police have said Action Fraud, who said no evidence so no fraud.

Bailiffs returned their debt to court after it was shown no attempt to hide or deceive, (plus she brought a full price ticket) DWP couldn't explain why they changed carers address to NDN but said all OK now.

NDN has made a couple of public scenes, but told produce paperwork as impossible to do anything further without it.

Tonight I have been seriously screamed at, struggled to get the woman out of my hall that she's accessed, and had serious slanderous unrelated rubbish along with claims it's fraudulent for me to have a carer, screamed up the street and threats of lies to the landlord, for a prolonged time causing people to stop and watch. Apparently months later she claims she's had another DWP letter for carer.

DWP can't confirm or deny, but admitted they had sent letters to my address then inexplicably to next door. They can't input carers new address as they say her flat number doesn't exist, (it has to, it's a block of not new flats and each has a number - no letters) then said they can't even input mine to end this, as the computer just defaults back to NDN each time they do!

They can't explain it, and say they can't block carers mail wrongly going out to this woman, even though they know, and that it's causing huge issues.

Poor carers personal info (with added BS) is being shouted all over the street, and it's allowing NDN to shout outrageous untrue claims that I've stolen from and defrauded named individuals and organizations and what a scummy person I am. It's a horrible data breach and DWP saying they can't explain it or fix it.

This situation is absolutely mind-boggling. That the DWP can send a vulnerable person to another vulnerable person's home to work as a carer, for carer's allowance, seems like exploitation (I accept the evidence helpfully provided above which seems to confirm that this is completely legal). Do the DWP complete DBS checks? Who is supervising, managing, training the carer - I presume no one given that the poster is responsible for insurance. God, what a bloody mess. I think a newspaper would be interested in the broader story - I like to think I'm pretty well-informed but I had no idea this was going on.

That the DWP can send a vulnerable person to another vulnerable person's home to work as a carer, for carer's allowance, seems like exploitation (I accept the evidence helpfully provided above which seems to confirm that this is completely legal)

They don't. OP must have misunderstood what is going on here.

Reading your OP again, you're saying that the flats have different numbers but that when DWP type in your number it defaults to next door and they can't change it back? And what? They shrugged and said they'd just carrying on sending post to the wrong address? Was it definitely DWP that you spoke to because either DWP or your carer have some sort of fraud going on here?

I think it's a benefit fraud scam connected to modern slavery. I suspect the "carer" isn't getting anything at all, someone is claiming on her behalf and that the OP isn't actually talking to the DWP at all when she thinks she is.

Nobody is disputing that carers allowance is £80ish a week and that you can get NI credits.

Gosh, that's a scary thought! I wonder?? @slowlyloosingthewill, are you phoning their published numbers? If they didn't leave you on hold for three-quarters of an hour while playing poorly-rendered classical music clips, it probably wasn't the real DWP 😏 At least they've dropped the Vivaldi.

Carer's Allowance: 0800 731 0297

Universal Credit: 0800 328 5644

Jobcentre Plus: 0800 169 0310

I imagine you already know this. Just thought it worth a check, in case!

Also re the angry neighbour, police non-emergency: 101.

Hi OP, when you said employed I didn’t understand you meant it quite literally however I stand by my original post and say contact CAB.

For other posters shocked at the payment I can confirm DH receives the payment of £81.90 to provide 24 hour care for me a whole 48p an hour. If in receipt of Carers allowance then NI credits are automatically applied. The payment is disgraceful and a contributory factor to people living in poverty

👏👏
The whole system is appalling and let's not even start on the inhumanity of over-payment debt collecting.

I had to leave a very good job to care for my mum (dementia, etc) and step-dad (stroke, cancer). I took a part-time minimum wage job and went self-employed doing ironing and house cleaning to try to keep my head above water but wasn't eligible for carer's allowance because I earned more than £150 a week. I'll never recover financially but even worse, I'll always feel guilty that I was relieved when they both eventually died.

It's quite ... clever.
The disabled person loses their severe disability premium when they get a carer. So, what happens:
Govt gives disabled person £81.50 a week extra to help with needs.
Govt takes £81.50 off disabled person, gives it to carer.
If carer claims other benefits, govt takes £81.50 off them.
The £81.50 ends up back with the DWP, so it's cost them nothing apart from the NI stamp.

Your points about background checks and training, etc, are really good.

This situation is absolutely mind-boggling. That the DWP can send a vulnerable person to another vulnerable person’s home to work as a carer, for carers allowance, seems like exploitation.

They would absolutely not do this. None of this thread makes much sense. I used to work at the job centre: many of my friends still work at the job centre. They do not do this.

The DWP being unable to put in the correct address is a matter for your MP.

@KrankyKumquat It’s so awful being put in that position isn’t it.

Of course they don't, but I don't think many people want to listen to logic! @Piffle11

carers allowance is not payment or employment and is never considered so. Officially, it is to supplement the costs of caring for 35 plus hours a week (it is normally a friend or a family member) but could never be used to pay someone to care as it would work out about £2.50/hour.

If is the OP suggests and she is employing someone at this rate, both she and the carer are being exploited. The OP is at risk of all kinds of problems, including tax and NI. The DWP would never get involved in setting up an arrangement like this.

If the OP is employing someone at this rate then yes, it could be considered modern slavery

I think that's a bit uncalled for. People have been genuinely shocked by the poster's account and the situation she is in. We're not welfare experts so don't know all the ins and outs of carer's allowance. If it's all a nonsense, made-up story, then we've been misled. If the poster has genuinely misunderstood or got muddled about some of the details, then we can still help her or, at least, feel sympathy. Or if she's exploiting a vulnerable, homeless carer, then we can criticise. Thing is, we'll likely never know for sure.

Why does so much chat on SM have to become an opportunity for strangers to score points from their very high horse?

Am I misunderstanding or is the carer in this position because she won't/can't claim UC?

She needs to speak with someone independent who has decent knowledge themselves rather than asking Mumsnet.

When you say she isn't managing UC and isn't managing earning anything else, what is she not managing about filling in an online form for UC?

Why can’t she cope with UC? If she is in receipt of carers allowance then there would be no work related activity she’d have to deal with, it would be quite simple and reasonably stress free for her.

So who's paying the carers rent if she doesn't get UC?

I'm guessing she's just not bothering with appointments/phone calls or OP is getting this all muddled up because very little of it makes any sense.

I think what @CaptainFuture is getting at is that posters are talking about contacting newspapers, contacting MPs, exploitation…

Carers allowance is not a wage. It is an allowance for people who are caring 35 hours a week minimum for someone who is in receipt of certain benefits, and usually claimed alongside having a job or other benefits. If OP’s carer cannot ‘handle’ claiming universal credit, that is not the fault of the DWP.

Letters from the DWP are sent out automatically. It’s not somebody typing it out, so the address is the one held on the system. I’m not sure how the address could suddenly jump to your next door neighbour, but I guess glitches do occur. If the address is genuinely wrong, then they CAN and would rectify this. They certainly wouldn’t insist on sending letters out to the wrong address.

The jobcentre did not send the carer to the OP. This part of the story I do not believe.

'Yes the job center put her in touch with me as a result of their contacts with an agency that had been supplying carers to the council before they changed the system. I'm far from the only one'.

So, theoretically, then. A homeless, non-English speaking woman goes into the JC looking for work as a carer. Nothing suitable available. JC worker knows there's some disabled people who haven't got carers at the moment due to the agency arrangements with the Council changing. Informally, via the former agency, the claimant is introduced to the poster and a claim for Carer's Allowance is made.

Doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility.

This is the part I don't think people are getting.

Nobody is confused about what carers allowance is, and who can claim it. The point I was trying to make, along with a couple of others, is that 'the job centre/DWP absolutely 100% do not send unemployed jobseekers to randomers houses, and say, OK you are now this persons' carer, get in your claim for CA, you've now got a job.

I was claiming out-of-work benefits until four years ago. My advisor told me she saw a lot of 'clients' who were unable to understand the process sufficiently to engage with it. She was visibly upset about one in particular, with serious learning difficulties, who couldn't answer questions clearly (she would ramble about unrelated things) and was illiterate.

With the help of a support worker, they got her signed up but she just said yes to her commitments and then didn't meet them. They reminded and cajoled her, she had a weak grasp of times & dates and was distressed by being asked to attend appointments, never turned up. They cut her loads of slack but eventually sanctioned her. She didn't understand that either.

My advisor left the job, as did some of her colleagues feeling the same disillusionment.

In "things that never happen" at the DWP, a campaign to incentivise sanctions reached its height while I was claiming. The department later admitted it but, at that time, were furiously denying it and taking welfare rights workers to court for asserting it. At one of my work-related activities, I made wall charts for the Jobcentre to track the number of sanctions issued by each advisor every week. There were prizes.

So, yes, there are people who can't cope with the system and the system does throw them off. And "things that never happen" sometimes do. I don't know the ins & outs of OP's situation, but I can imagine it occurring as a way of supporting two claimants with compatible difficulties.

The whole business of community care's a powder keg, really.

Lot of phone calls, confusion about what order some of what's gone on happened, but not making up anything and neither is the carer.

Not a drip feed, what has come to light after following up on things people suggested, and some of the accusations made.
No one is fraudulent, no one is lying but I will not be going into all the details to be picked apart and accused of it.

Proving things to people on the internet is less important than protecting myself and the carer. I answered questions because I was looking for advice.
Thank you to everyone who gave it, especially on the actual issues asked about.

Confirmed: involvement of job center, agencies, DWP, training schemes, Brexit and equivalent systems counting or not, checks, supported internship, rules on self employment, tax, UC, savings, training allowances as wages. (not UC)
Not fitting boxes, not managing UC, being converted from paid carer to carers allowance, status changing but hours and rates similar, payments to bank continuing, employers insurance required when not family or friend, shadowing considered training.
I cant follow all of it and definitely not explain it to others.

Told: care companies change hands frequently, trainee carers stop being paid or linked frequently. If caring at the time, being converted to carers allowance is acceptable. DWP will not confirm details or information held with the carer, only change them to current status. Freedom of information and complaint systems must be used. ICO can then investigate. Letters withheld for now.

Told: No laws broken, everything people have said could happen to me cant.
Not involved in or could be considered modern slavery in any way.
Topping up what carers get, providing meals, showers, and letting them stay in your home when not working, could be misread when not friends or family.

Confirmed: carer is who her passport and DBS check shows, no one is taking her money, her rent is partly paid from savings. There is disability money I could get that goes directly to her, instead of to me and then me paying the council.
She has not lied, I have not lied. neither of us has done anything we shouldn't, other people may have. But none of any of it is illegal.