To retrain as a teacher at (just turned) 50?

[MyPearlCrow]

Just that really. I was a solicitor/partner in a law firm for my first career but burned out /got bored and cynical, so gave it up. luckily we can afford for me not to work which I realise is such a privilege.

I volunteer in a primary school now several days a week and essentially do an unpaid TA role. Here, TAs here are essentially teachers without all the planning/prep/responsibility, as in they actively teach the curriculum to small groups of children. They are highly skilled.

I have considered being a TA. I have been offered a paid role at my current school. But I’m still considering my options and it’s desperately badly paid. And all the TAs here are technically over qualified (all degree educated, or ex teachers, but don’t want the ridiculous workload of a teacher; entry requirement for TA role in England is just passes in gcse English maths and science) but they are paid peanuts. But it’s such a rewarding role and I love it. I think I could really add value.

Complete honesty here: I also realise that I’m used to running the show, in my old job. I suspect that in time I would want to make my own decisions on how to deal with my class, rather than carry out someone else’s instructions. I can already see ways I would want change up the teaching/approach for some children who are struggling. I am acutely aware that teachers just don’t have time to individualise the curriculum for 30 kids though, so I’m aware I might be looking at this from the 6-8 kids I currently take responsibility for in lessons and the ability to do this with a whole class might be much more limited.

i really love being with kids, I value education, I’m a good ‘teacher’ - as in I love to explain things simply and differently to children (or in my old role, to adults too).

Teachers - am I mad? I know too well how hard the job is these days. The primary curriculum here is crazy complicated. The breadth of ability and need is jaw dropping. But I truly believe in state education being a passport to a better life and would love to be part of that.

or do I just take the TA role, qualify up as much as I can in TA courses and accept I’ll be minimum wage forever but trying to make a difference?

important point: I have kids, so want to work part time. And train part time too. I know there are options for this but it will be competitive (I have top grades academically which I think might help). If I do a part time pgce, could I do my first year as a newly qualified teacher part time or is that not an option?

I don’t underestimate what a massive, difficult, demanding and at times (currently) desperately frustrating role teaching is. Am I too old for such a huge challenge? I’d love some wisdom from teachers and ex teachers please.

Thank you. Sounds like an awful school.

Of course it does.

But that wont happen until it is willing to pay for it.

I have a PhD in Comp Sci - why would I choose to teach Comp Sci for 30k a year when I'm in industry earing three times that?

You would definitely regret this.

We are discussing barriers to entering the teaching profession. I think discussing the lack of support/training in terms of the curriculum content one is absolutely relevant, to the topic in general and also my decision making process.

i trained in law. I was actively taught all the fundamental legal subjects that underpin our laws at uni and law school. As a trainee and qualified lawyer, we were taught new law, legal updates, legislation change by seniors, specially qualified support lawyers or external service providers (when senior we, in turn, taught others, but had access to help and support and materials in doing so). So this is my yardstick: the idea that teachers teach themselves the curriculum content is genuinely jaw dropping for me.

This stuff might not be news to teachers, but it’s eye opening to someone from another prufession and, if I’m brutally honest, as a parent. My children’s spag teaching felt staccato, dry, at times just odd and irrelevant, and I am wondering now whether that’s because the people teaching it weren’t secure in their own knowledge. we didn’t care as we felt it was all totally unnecessary if children enjoy reading and learn language through that, which thankfully ours did.

I remember asking the teacher what a noun phrase was in a year 3 parents evening as it was listed part of ongoing learning on her sheet - her answer didn’t help and I had to look it up myself. I thought that was my ignorance but If no one is teaching the teachers this complex stuff, and how to teach it in a way that contemplates real language use - rather than success criteria such as ‘have I used complex grammar, the subjunctive, the passive voice and parenthesis in this piece, if yes then writing is good’ (which is bollocks frankly) then no wonder it misses the mark for many primary aged kids.

That was in three schools. In the school where I was allowed to do what my job title said, there were several unqualified teachers who were planning and teaching shortage subjects. It’s recently had a ‘Good” Ofsted. But you’re thinking of doing Primary, so the worst that can happen is you are moved from Year 1 to Year 6 or vice versa.

"I don’t believe most people can just teach themselves the detailed level of SPAG which would allow them to understand, identify, teach and correct in a coherent and logical way. Unless you’ve been through the education system in the last 10-15 years and been taught it. Or as a pp said, knowledge stemming from high level (degree) study of languages."

Yet you have to learn it -all of it. I'm an immigrant and English isn't my first language, although I've worked hard on making sure that's not immediately obvious. Bizarrely, I believe there is more direct teaching of quite complex SPaG in primary school than in secondary, even though developmentally, children and probably more 'ready' for some aspects of upper KS2 SPaG once they reach KS3.

"How does the curriculum change?"

There is the National Curriculum, which may be changed as a result of governmenal curriculum reform -notably Gove's notorious tinkering which, among other things, front-loaded aforementioned SPaG in the curriculum for English. Changes to the National Curriculum are relatively infrequent but seismic when they do occur.

Then there is 'the curriculum' which is the education offer which a school delivers day to day as part of their continuous provision of education entitlement. An Ofsted report may say: "The curriculum is well designed and meets the needs of learners." This refers to the way a school has chosen to deliver the National Curriculum within its own setting, ensuring that all the objectives of the National Curriculum are delivered in a way that is well planned and structured and allows pupils to build on their learning to achieve age related standards.

Schools have some autonomy over how they design their curriculum, and a long as it is observably and measurably (against the standards for attainment set in the National Curriculum) delivering good outcomes for all children all is well. Schools can deliver 'the curriculum' through discrete subject teaching, or in cross-curricular 'topics', or a mixture of both; they can devise their own units (usually done by appointed subject leaders within the teaching staff) or 'buy in' schemes for key subjects, commonly seen in Maths, Music, PE, ICT and PSHE, for instance.

Schools can change 'their' curriculum as and when it is felt to be necessary. This can be as a result of the ongoing school improvement journey, or as trivially as a new member of SLT needing to show 'whole school impact' as part of their performance management. The changes to a school's own curriculum will not change the actual content of the National Curriculum, but there may be new expectations for an implementation of a change of pedagogy, or teaching sequence, or resourcing, or a change in which year group covers specific aspects of Art or History, for instance, meaning that class teachers have to learn new content and embed new pedagogy, all of which takes time and a lot of paperwork.

A school's curriculum should be under constant review as part of a perpetual cycle of reflection, refining and improving so this is to be expected. When people say to me "Why don't you just use last year's resources and planning?" I just laugh.

All the 50 year olds l worked with in teaching were desperate to get out. It’s physically exhausting.

I don’t know any of them who made it to 60

Mostly political posturing and generally being crap.

The unions are made up of the members, though. If teachers routinely arrive at 7 am, leave at 6 pm and work through the legally mandatory 20-minute lunch break, what can the unions do except advise their members of their legal rights?

There are so many teachers on the upper pay scale being put on support plans now, often after one lesson observation. In most cases they have to demonstrate improvement within 6-8 weeks or go onto a formal support plan. Formal support has to go on a reference, so union reps are busy securing agreed references for these members. Who then leave and are replaced by early career teachers. It’s all about cost cutting and demonstrating strong leadership to Ofsted by showing they have upheld standards by “managing out” expensive, experienced staff.

What is then left? A school of young, enthusiastic, inexperienced teachers, unqualified teachers, and HLTAs. Some of these will stay. Many will leave the profession.

I’ll be honest and say that you sound as if you’re viewing teaching through rise coloured glasses, but I also think you should go for it, if you think you can manage the training alongside working and family commitments. There’s a distinct feeling of achievement in reaching a dream/ goal, and what will you have lost if it doesn’t work out? Try it. I’m a firm believer that we regret the chances we didn’t take more than the ones we did.

@WarmthAndDepth your English is amazing!

I'm a Design and Technology technician. I've got a Material Science background so it's a good fit for me.

They aren’t average. They have degrees and postgrads. They are way above average. As are you.
Do you think the content is being taught by the teachers with enough depth and understanding in the school you are in? Because they taught themselves the content as the curriculum changed.

I agree with this. I'm 53 and it's physically exhausting. I've spent the first two days of half term lying down with my feet up to relieve my aching legs. I love what I do though, so will keep going for now.

This shows the issue with recruitment now - not you @ProudCat , sounds like you have your own passion to ensure you have the knowledge - but the general rule that you don’t need a degree in your first subject. When I trained you did. For a little while even I wouldn’t have been eligible because I was joint honours 50/50 with another subject and your degree had to be more than 50% in your first subject. That was when there was a great pool of people wanting to train and the providers and government could be picky. They just want a pulse now.

Well said.

What perks do you think there are to secondary? I’d hate middle school. Y7 were a bit young for me and I really loved the exam classes, but I have a friend who works in one and likes it. No ‘perks’ though.

I’m an English teacher. I have taught, as part of my timetable in a permanent role, history, drama and RE, the latter to GCSE. All without my consent. Related subjects maybe, but utterly different content. I learned all the content myself. On a full time maternity cover I was given A level Media Studies and KS3 Welsh (I’m a Welsh learner, not a first language speaker). Again, no help with content.
A friend of mine was switched from Food Tech to science - she was sent an a couple of day courses to help boost her knowledge, but was soon teaching GCSE. It happens. Financial constraints and problems recruiting.

If you want support with subject knowledge as well as pedagogy may I suggest a full, 3-year BEd. That is the route I went down (mine later turned into a BSc through the addition of another year focused on A-level knowledge and beyond in my subject). The course will enable you to learn the curriculum as it stands as well as how to teach it. Most people these days skip this and do a degree and then a 1-year PGCE or get thrown into the job through one of the many post-grad routes now available and then complain they don't know what they're doing.

There are some universities and teacher training colleges that offer this degree.

As for teaching itself - no, I wouldn't recommend it to you.

I'm normally very much on the fence when people ask, because we need new entrants to the profession since we barely have anyone left in my subject. You don't want to put people off.

But a few things stuck out for me:

• Your age: teaching sucks the life out of you, not just in terms of time spent working, but also the intensity of being on stage 6 hours a day without a break and then having to hold your tongue in the face of rude students, parents or managers who will criticise every inch of your performance (while you secretly know they're no better themselves). It's harder to keep up with the exhaustion and with not batting SLT, parents and students back as you get older.
• You already suffered from burnout before. Teaching will likely lead to that again - clearly you have an issue with boundaries, people pleasing and overwork, and teaching is never done, no matter how hard you work. You will never finish the job.
• You seem to be under the impression that you can do the job better than some of your colleagues. You might, but that attitude won't be helpful when you start at the bottom and will be mentored by said colleagues. I, too, once thought I could change the world. We all did. Reality is very different.
• Your reluctance to teach yourself. You will be doing that a lot, in your own time, because the curriculum never stands still. Be it new technology, new subject content, keeping up with news, keeping up with developments in education. No one will have the time to teach you this, you will need to self-direct. If you're annoyed at having to look one word up by yourself, imagine what teaching will be like. I've done the job for well over two decades and I am still learning.

I get the feeling you're set on the job. By all means do it. Heaven knows we need the teachers in the classroom, and an enthusiastic person, no matter how short-lived, is better than another cover supervisor who doesn't give two shits.

Dh was a history teacher (has now left teaching after 25 years, having been SLT for years). He taught some tech and also computing for a while, due to staffing shortages. He also taught occasional geography and RS classes over the years, but that's not uncommon for history teachelrs. He has no qualification in any of those apart from history.

I was interviewed for an MFL maternity cover and was asked at interview if I'd be willing to teach some KS3 English. I got a Y9 class. Also, I have a degree in French and German but also teach KS3 Spanish, having never had a Spanish lesson in my life. I am self-taught (up to roughly A Level standard).

It is very common and always has been. Up to Y9, in a normal state school, I'd plrather put in front of a class a good, trained teacher willing to learn the content than a subject specialist with unproven teaching skills.

I've also done quite a lot of general secondary supply teaching, so have delivered lessons (planned by subject specialists) in almost all subjects and have a very good idea of what I could ahd couldn't teach.

I was an art teacher. I had to teach electronics. I hated it.

Having taught in Secondary and in Primary Schools . I have to disagre that Primary is tougher.
I did teach in a Middle School in Northumberland on a long term supply contract and really enjoyed it but missed teaching A Level.
We moved around the UK and overseas with DH job.
I have also taught in the Private Sector and still say that Secondary teaching is much more demanding.

How is primary ‘a lot tougher’ than secondary? It’s totally different - but tougher??????

I know... And what are these mysterious 'perks' that secondary teachers apparently have?

Agree totally with your last sentence. Judging by what I've read so far I think @MyPearlCrow will headbutt against such characters in SLT - and it won't be pretty...