To be annoyed that vegan options have replaced vegetarian?

[Sacredhandbag]

It's only a silly gripe in the grand scheme of things but it's bloody annoying.

I've been a vegetarian my whole life but since veganism has become more popular and more and more people are becoming part of the movement (and good on them!) it's like restaurants, cafes and hotels have skipped adding vegetarian options and thought "well vegan options covers both so we'll just add a few of those"

No! I am not vegan. I am vegetarian. I still want my eggs, my cream, my cheese, my butter. I want a stilton and broccoli bake, not a grilled bit of cauliflower!

Afternoon tea (I'm a fan and have one as often as I can) is the worst for it. There's an ordinary menu and then there's a vegan menu and that's it. You order one or the other. I don't want chicken or fish sandwiches but I sure as hell want my scones with proper clotted cream! So I have to be specific about the sandwiches and say I want some from one menu and some from the other. Bloody annoying.

Any other veggies feel the same?

Restaurants that used to be great for vegetarian options are so much less reliable now they’re doing vegan instead of vegetarian and vegan.

The sauces are made with coconut oil or coconut milk rather than butter and cream, for example. It’s awful stuff that completely changes the flavour profile of a classic sauce or gravy. It works with the flavours of South East Asian food but buggers up a mushroom wellington, for example.

Several of our regular takeaway places have swapped to vegan options from vegetarian. It’s great for the vegans to have options. But the result is that the omnivores order a takeaway and I just do myself a bowl of pasta.

Chinese food and curries are effortlessly vegan and delicious. Food based on dairy and eggs is crap when mangled into a plant based approximation by a catering industry not remotely interested in veggie/vegan food beyond “that will do.”

This mildly annoys me but I usually ask for normal cheese in a vegan burger or whatever.

I do, however, really miss goat's cheese. Once upon a time you couldn't avoid it on a veggie option. Now it's disappeared.

Try being gluten intolerant vegetarian meals used to be a friendly place full of vegetables cheese eggs etc now it's vegan meat replacement I can't eat that at all even when it's soy because guess who reacts to soy!

I asked a chef to come out to chat to me the one day because there was nothing menu wise I could eat he switched a few things around for me but most times I'm stuck for choice

🤣
I have a vegan daughter, if I were going to do afternoon tea for her I would be spoilt for choice, sandwiches / small wraps with humus, falafel, baba ganoush, smashed avocado etc cakes - well so easy, so many good vegan cake/brownie recipes out there.

it really is very easy to prepare decent vegan food, including "treat" food.

But I take the OPs point, so many menus now will offer only the vegan option, and it is something insubstantial like "cauliflower steak" - yes, well, no - a slice of spiced, fried, cauliflower is not my idea of a great meal to be frank! No pulses, lentils, no protein of any sort. Restaurants often just take a lazy and uninformed option, not even great for vegans and veggies really miss out.

Just ask for cheese on your vegan burger if that's what you want? We get it quite regularly and we have both vegetarian and vegan options, I mean some have said that the restaurant seems to have a problem with it, but do they actually or are they just checking back that they haven't misunderstood you ? Because I do that to make sure I'm not about to give someone something they don't want to eat, and the chef will check as well because they also want to ensure the customer is getting what they want.
We have vegan dishes that you can add stuff to, that then means they're vegetarian or then in fact neither.
We adapt dishes to a certain degree, something like Avo on toast, you have a choice of bread/butter so it's vegan or not, and then you can add eggs, bacon, mushrooms, hollandaise or whatever you want to make it the dish you want. People moan it's too much choice 🤷🏼‍♀️ so they'd rather have loads of versions of the same thing with 5 of them vegan, 5 vegetarian and 5 containing meat than just 1 base option with the choice to add what you want to it to make it whatever it is you want to eat.
Then your menu ends up like war & peace.

I'm vegetarian because I don't like meat. I'd happily eat good vegan food but I can't eat the fake meat stuff because to me it tastes too much like meat. When the vegan/vegetarian option is a fake meat burger, etc I'm left with very little to no choice.

Not quite the same, but I'm dairy free along with baby DD who has CMPA (I'm breastfeeding). It annoys me that so many dairy free options are also gluten free or vegetarian/vegan (I want meat and egg)!...

Similarly, I have a friend who is gluten free (coeliac) and gets frustrated because their only options are often vegan or vegetarian.

On a side note... I agree with those posters who say the tastiest vegetarian/vegan food is "naturally" vegan...

This... I am not strictly veggie, though prefer it and can't remember the last time I ate meat, but I hate all the processed fake meat substitutes... Give me a bean chilli or mushroom and halloumi burger any day!

Vegan sandwiches
Vegan cakes
Vegan scones

But then you get the inevitable complaints that there are only 1 or 2 'boring' choices for non-meat-eaters!

I think part of the issue is that a lot of vegans will insist that everybody 'can' eat vegan food, so it 'makes sense' to only serve vegan food for everybody to be 'able' to eat (however happy or not they may be with that).

The majority of people eat meat, and a high proportion of them would simply not give their custom to a restaurant that didn't offer it. Vegetarians already know they are being 'particular' - and are a minority - so they are already used to (self-decided) restrictions when presented with a menu.

To be blunt, it's 100% your free choice what you will and won't eat, but to a lot of people, this will be framed as a 'fussy' person complaining that their freedom is being spoiled by 'even fussier' people.

Also, there are parallels with catering for omnovires, whereby if a number of Muslims, Jews and/or Hindus were going to be at an event, the chosen meat option for all the omnivores (including all the non-religious ones) would probably be chicken or fish, with pork and beef deliberately avoided.

I suppose it's a bit like with 'free from' foods (except they are usually down to allergies rather than ethical choice). You know you have somebody who is allergic to gluten and another person who is allergic to dairy: if you can find an option that is gluten free AND dairy free, you're unlikely to go out of your way to source items which will enable your GF person to have dairy and your DF person to have gluten - when they're already a small minority of those for whom you're catering.

The thing is, vegan food IS suitable for vegetarians, whereas the reverse isn't true.

^ This statement fills me with irrational levels of rage every single time I see it trotted out.
Let’s say something that is just as true:

The thing is, vegan food IS suitable for meat eaters, whereas the reverse isn't true.

If it’s about food all customers can eat, let’s make all menu items vegan! Everyone can have everything on the menu, yay! Super efficient!

Or make 90% vegetarian - because omnivores can all eat vegetarian food - and 10% vegan for the purists.

But omnivores don’t want to only eat vegetarian or vegan food when dining out.
Just as vegetarians don’t want to only eat vegan food.

Yes, agree. There was a similar thread on Mumsnet a couple of months ago with a lot of folks saying what you are saying. I am not at all implying you're not allowed to make the point again though. From my point of view, this point needs making again and again until someone listens.

Restaurants that do this, will do it because it’s cost effective. Anyone up for opening a restaurant to do what you’re all asking, but not making as much money as you can...lol. As if.

If you want more choices, eat at better places. Eat out less to afford to do this if needed.

Or just keep whinging on mumsnet and changing nothing.

Absolutely agree with this. The mark up on veggie/vegan options is ridiculous. Do they think we won’t notice? I wouldn’t mind if it was a dish that has taken some effort to prepare, rather than a nasty burger or mediocre pasta

Works both ways. I've lost count of the times my vegan partner and son have been told items x, y or z on the menu are vegan but when you look at the detail they contain dairy or eggs.

I am definitely eating out a lot less these days as the quality of food has nosedived and prices gone up. We now eat out once a month perhaps, and it used to be weekly.

My daughter complains about the same thing.

Agree with all of this. I thing veganism had a moment a couple of years back and supermarkets and restaurants offered a fair amount of options, but the moment seems to have passed and it's now back to Beyond burger or something tasteless involving boiled butternut squash. And sorbet, sodding sorbet

I don't want vegan cheeses, oat/almond/soya milk.
When I cook vegan at home it is vegetables, mushrooms, lentils, fruit, coconut milk - none of this lookalike meat and cheese which is ultra processed and tastes foul.

I'm a former vegetarian but still regularly eat vegetarian food.

For me the issue is all the highly processed vegan meat/cheese alternatives or options which are in no way a proper balanced meal. I will happily eat either vegetarian or vegan if they're made of proper food.

I'm very happy with something with beans or lentils or tofu as a vegan option or cheese, eggs or milk as a vegetarian option. I do not want fake meat or cheese or something which has no protein in it.

Indian food was always my go to as a vegetarian. Real Italian and mexican places are also good options ime.

Oh stop!!
Please just think about how 'Your' cheese ends up on your plate....

The only fake meat I eat is "this isn't bacon" which is gorgeous and their lardons are quite good as well.

I don't understand what has happened to the butternut squash or pumpkin ravioli? And a good old macaroni and cheese. There used to be some lovely vegetarian food out there but we struggle to find anything to eat now as all that is on offer is a vegan burger and I can't stand them, don't like veggie burgers either.

Have you seen the cost of vegan food items? Definitely won’t be saving money

I was exactly going to say this. I eat meat but I like veggie food with beans, pulses, veg, cheese etc. I don’t really like much vegan food though except that which happens to be vegan such as some Asian cuisines. I’d order a veggie meal happily but rarely a vegan one.

i absolutely agree
YANBU ( and neither am I !!!)
it’s taken years to get a decent veggie meal and now it’s practically impossible to. Applies to some products in shops as well
I’m pleased it not just me !!!