To think 71 is too old for state pension age?

[winterwonder1]

This isn't just for people who are 21 now - that's for people born after 1970 - so 55 now. I can't imagine being fit enough to do my job at 71.
DWP State Pension age will have to rise to 71 says report | News Shopper

An absolute joke. Both of my parents didn't reach that age. I've got over 20 years to go. I might not make it if they extend to 71.

But this is the thing. They are saying there aren't enough workers. Don't start me, but yet another reason why Brexit and the xenophobes have done for us.

I think it's better to save your own money than put it in a pension scheme, you can follow the best interest rates and take the interest as income whenever you want and start to use the capital whenever you want. I know you don't get the employer contribution, but the pension funds seem to be rubbish at getting good interest on their funds and then annuity rates are awful.

Obviously also pay into the state pension.

Of course it's too old. But there's not really much choice given it is clearly unaffordable and no government has done anything about it to now. No thought as to who was going to fund it and how. The difference between 68 and 71 feels negligible really, either people will go off sick or retire on a private pension by that age anyway.

Employer contribution and your 25% government top up.

Also you need the money to grow so you need to invest it, having it in a savings account you’ll lose money because of inflation.

No need to buy an annuity. I’m not at that stage yet but from what I’ve read a big mistake a lot of pensioners make is not taking enough risk in retirement with their investments. Which isn’t to say they should gamble it all on red but should leave it invested so it continues to grow.

How can there not be enough workers if we’ve taken in millions of migrants, the majority of whom were supposed to young and fit? More than 5 million EU citizens applied for settled status post Brexit.

if the numbers are up significantly and GDP per capita has gone down, something is not adding up. At all.

How old are you? If you paid £9k a year student fees you certainly didn’t grow up in a society where the majority of women didn’t work full time. If you were born in 1992 - the first cohort to pay £9k - 83% of women with degrees worked full time and 66% of women without them. Obviously there’s little point in being educated to degree standard and not having a career.

That’s not tearing up the social contract, it’s the inevitable result of expanding higher education.

My savings some of which is a bit alternative has grown faster then my investments (trackers nothing too risky), but yes you can put the money you would have put in a pension straight into S&S. Then again the rules are a lot more relaxed these days with SIPPs and the ability to withdraw funds from pension schemes when you like (over 55?), most of that didn't exist before I retired or was a bit new. But having my money directly under my control has worked out well for me, if I was young now I might do something different (or not).

I don't know how old you are, but all the women I knew worked (and I'm past pension age) and my mother worked all of her life too from the age of 14. This myth of women staying at home with everything paid for by the man of the house maybe applied to middle and upper class women (of which there were few) most of us worked just as hard as women do now.

I said most the mothers of young children, not women in general.

I'm a millennial, but my mother stayed home and has never worked full time since, and most of the other mothers at primary school did not work full time. We were not rich but had what we needed.

My life experience and what I've seen with my own eyes isn't a myth.

What a fucking depressing life it is now. By biggest regret is having kids and bringing then into the hellhole of a world. Also, if I didn’t have them, I could pop myself off tomorrow with no worries. I’m sure the government would be happy it was one less old person to pay for in the future.

It’s anecdotal and that’s all very quaint but doesn’t change the fact it wasn’t what was happening in the main

I'm a few months younger. 54. Professional role with occasional night shifts. I don't bounce back from them as much I I once did!

I used to manage someone who retired at 69. He seemed far too old to still be working, and constantly struggled with new tech, applications, online portals etc. He became notably more frail in his last few years of work.

Which would include mothers of young children.

@Labraradabrador but very sadly, the majority of people, the actual working class don't earn enough to be able, to do this. How the actual F are we supposed to earn a big pension pot on minimum wage?

PLUS we working scum aren't looking forward to a 'a leisurely retirement', we're just hoping not to work ourselves to an early death. Because we're paying for a retirement pension! Maybe 5-10 years of retirement before we die.

The government and the haves in society (like you) can bitch, moan and judge all you like. You literally cannot squeeze money out of the poor (blood out of a stone) to save for a pension. THIS is the problem with capitalism. All the money goes to the top, the bottom don't have enough for daily life, let alone saving for 30 years from now.

Well it’s all anecdotal isn’t it?
Whatever your experience says very little about what happens in general or what other people’s experiences were.

fwiw Im living in an area that is deprived. My DCs were born in the 2000. Very few mothers worked, let alone full time. Actually I got judged for working full time. It was the height of ‘putting children in nursery or with a CM increases their cortisol levels and it’s very BAAAD for them’.
Most mothers throughout primary worked part time, always there to pick up the dcs etc…..

Fwiw if you look at statistics, in the 2000, only about 25% of mothers were working full time. Hardly the majority

According to the ONS 66.2% of mothers worked full time in 2000. That’s statistical not anecdotal.

SIPP’s have been available since 1990. Anyone could invest in one and get the tax relief and compounding interest/gains.
What is clear from this thread is that we need to impress upon our children that saving for a pension and being financially literate is essential. If you start in your 20s you need to save 10% of your earnings your whole working career (15% if you start in your 30s, 20% in your 40s and so on). But that 10% is actually 7.5% because of tax relief. It’s not easy, I’m not suggesting that at all. As a single mum during my 30s, there were months that we lived on pesto pasta but I never neglected my pension. It is never too late to start but we definitely need to motivate our youngsters to prioritise skills and education and to start saving early.
I fully appreciate that for many right now it seems, or actually is, an impossible task to pay the bills, let alone save into a SIPP or workplace pension. Money saving expert has some excellent info as does the FIRE movement.

I posted yesterday about how the “actual working class” could save a decent pension on minimum wage. As someone pointed out this only applies to people who start very young. But it’s more doable than it appears if you have enough time. I’ve said it multiple times on this thread but the government should make educating people regarding the importance of investing in pensions as early as possible a priority.

That way maybe in future people who need the money can have enough to live on rather than the £11.5k a year currently given to everyone whether they need it or not.

Firstly, at my age, it's too late to start saving the modest attempt I could scrimp. It wouldn't amount to enough to be useful. My mother also had this issue. She was advised to contribute the small amount she could manage, at considerable hardship to herself, at 50. All that happened was that the tiny amount she'd saved meant she was JUST (within £10) over the limit for pension credit (no idea what the equivalent benefit is now).

Secondly, unless we're talking about contributions between £20 or £30 a month, anyone on minimum wage literally doesn't have the money to put into a pension. So yes, a 20 year old (non graduate, basic job) may well be able to save that much. But given the way rents have hugely increased, the rocketing cost of basic utilities, and increasing food prices, an individual on £22K a year really really can't afford pension payments. They're trying to keep a roof over their heads.

THIS is the reality of most people right now. I mean, I hope the recession eases up a bit and then maybe for a while we'll have a little more money in our pocket. But to have a place to live, to heat it and to eat, is breaking people right now. So to then demand they pay into something that doesn't currently enable life is just not feasible.

It's not a lack of willingness. It's a lack of ability. Until government address this, nothing will change. I would have thought Labour would understand this. I totally get that the Conservatives, party of landed gentry, don't.

I agree, my example was based on starting at 21 years old, contributing £12 a week (so an hour at the new minimum wage).

For older people it’s very difficult. But a conversation around pensions needs to happen decades in advance so it’s important to think about young people too.

The idea of the Conservatives being the party of landed gentry is laughable, they increased taxes massively on the wealthiest, slashed capital gains allowance to the bone. Labour have only made things worse with Robbing Rachel’s headline seeking tax grabs. They can say all they want that they haven’t hit working people but they know what they’ve done will lead to increased prices and job losses. And taxing pensions on death is absolutely the wrong message to send out right now.

But they are the party made up vastly of the landed gentry. I won't argue with you about taxes etc, because that isn't what this thread is about.

But it stands to reason that if you come from a huge country estate, were a member of the Bullingdon Club (or a more modest background like Rishi, still very privileged), that however much tax you pay, your millions will insulate you against understanding what it is like not to have enough money to be able to afford to have the heating on and therefore be unable to save a private pension.

Not sure about the vast majority of them but I agree with that to be fair.

@GutsyShark I'm thinking Rees Mog. I'm sitting on my hands not to make a value judgement here!