How to manage two exhausted kids when they come home from their dad's?

[BookArt55]

Two kids, 3 and 6 years old (eldest has adhd).
Overnight with dad has only happened three times on a Saturday night, and will likely be increasing soon to three nights every two weeks. We go back to court next week to finalise everything.

Kids have no bedtime at dad's. They fall asleep on the sofa, eldest went to bed at 10pm on Saturday (dad told me 10pm so it could have been later). Yesterday our eldest had a 3 hour nap which i then struggled to wake them up from, had 11 hours sleep through the night. Today they complained of being unwell, crying, said their body felt horrible. I've kept our eldest off school as this is completely out of character for them. They are exhausted and now asleep. Two weeks ago after a night with dad, our eldest was ill and had the Monday off school too. Our youngest has gone to nursery but he is exhausted and I couldn't wake him up this morning despite an extra long nap yesterday and a full nights sleep.

Coparenting is non existent, dad acticely tells everyone including the court that he parallel parents. I will raise my concerns but dad won't listen to anyone. He never did a bedtime successfully when we were together. We are back in court next week for final agreement.

My big concern is one late night really has a knock on effect for the kids for a couple of days after. Eldest has ADHD so it really impacts his behaviour and focus. Dad will have either one or two school nights.

I will liaise with school. Nursery will continue to offer a nap which will help.

Anything else I can do to help them when they are with me?

There was domestic abuse involved, so dad often uses the kid's to get to me it seems.

Document it. Ask the school and nursery to comment on how the DCs are when with them. Relay all that information to the court and ask that the court give your ex some kind of guidance, or ask for the extended contact to be delayed until the dcs are a bit older.

If they are too tired for school, the court may take notice of that.

I might be right off the mark here, but the state of your eldest makes it sleep like more than a lack of sleep. He's feeling unwell, even with sleeping a lot at yours. Are you sure it's the sleeping or only that? Are they being fed rubbish as well at all?

Have you had any social services involvement? Or reports to Court? WTF is parallel parenting? What does he say if you let him know the kids are knackered and that the recommended bed time is about 8/9ish, latest?

As others have said, I’d document it, let the court know, plus his responses, and argue that at least until Saturday evenings are going better you think it’s in the best interests of the children for overnights to be weekends only. Otherwise their education: development could suffer. Offer him pickup until 7pm in the week instead.

The court might not agree, in which case I’d be asking school to ensure that all communication about late starts/ tiredness/ bad behaviour is documented and sent to BOTH parents so you can go back to court if this continues.

Yeh it seems like they only eat pepperoni pizza and toast... there are other concerns with the youngest's allergies that I have flagged to court. But time is still being increased.
With me they eat lots of fruit and vegetables, and some treats obviously.

Thank you for this. I've realised today it is tiredness and not illness. Moving forward I will definitely make sure eldest is in school. Documenting is a full time job in itself, but fingers crossed it builds that picture for the court.

Thank you for this.

Yeh i had to Google parallel parenting after our last court date. Everything is separate including all school meetings etc. Then he does what he wants at his house and has limited contact with me. This sounds great for me, but with two children with medical issues it doesn't work in their best interests as he refuses to attend medical appointments until it comes to an operation for our eldest, then he is there, but he doesn't understand past a bit of googling before a court date and he doesn't follow any medical advice i pass on to him.

We had a cafcass section 7 report, we have just submitted a few weeks ago our position statements. I was the main parents and did everything and expressed my concerns, he says he was the main carer and wants the kids full time. I am going to raise it through my barrister next week my concerns about routine and consistency. Prior to this I stopped contact due to his worrying behaviours, so there were ten months since he had them overnight.

The kid's go to bed at 7pm, 8pm at the very latest. They are just two kids who need their sleep. The youngest still naps but dad refuses to allow him to sleep when in his care... don't get me started.

Not got any useful advice OP but just wanted to say I have the same issues but have been told I can't tell him how to parent at his house. He keeps our youngest (9) up until 10/10.30 on school nights (not doing anything with her btw, she's usually just watching her tablet). The next day she is unbearable and she has extra curricular commitments that are a battle to get to because she is so tired. He also feeds them mcdonalds and no fruit/veg every single time, without fail. They once had 3 takeaways in 2 days, I kid you not!!
I'd love to know if you achieve anything as so far I am fighting a losing battle.

What a pair of idiots these stupid men are!

I think the difficulty is that a Court will probably agree that there’s more than one way to parent and won’t want to be too prescriptive over it- but equally if there is evidence that it’s starting to regularly affect the child’s education or health they’ll have to take it seriously. If overnights are leading to problems it’s really important that the school/ nursery let you both know what’s happening so you can keep a record. I’d also keep involving the GP if you think it’s appropriate. The school should also know that you need to be informed, parallel parenting or no, as you’re taking the kids home.

Otherwise I would keep all communication factual and to the point- Miss X said that Jacob fell asleep this afternoon in school, they have asked you to ensure that he’s getting enough sleep on a Tuesday. As you know his regular bedtime is between 7-8 pm. If he reacts like a maniac just reply noted and keep the text/ email. But don’t be put off raising this, again and again, just because he behaves like a bastard.

I’m also torn between suggesting the only “school” overnight as Friday, so he has crappy miserable kids the next day and it doesn’t affect you, or suggesting a day when the eldest has PE or something the next day so any tiredness is immediately obvious.

The youngest still naps but dad refuses to allow him to sleep when in his care... don't get me started.

That’s basically neglect (unless he’s say waking him after an hour or stopping a nap at say 4pm when he is due to go to bed at 6). Again I’d be keeping a record of all of this and reporting to social services/ putting it before a Court. Especially post poor Sara Sharif and now family courts are open to the press you may find that this is all taken a bit more seriously…

I think I would send them to school and nursery the next day so that a third party can document how tired they are. Otherwise he may argue they were fine and you kept them off to make a point.

Feel for you! This is mu future. Unfortunately the kid's suffer abd it's heartbreaking to see.

Unfortunately this sounds like someone I know. Not much you can do, you can only control what happens in your own home and you have to just get on with and ignore what happens in the other home. Difficult when it impacts you though. Rather than let them nap would you be able to keep them busy? Is the 6 year old sensible enough to say to them to go to bed earlier (I understand they may not be able to read a clock yet but could you teach them for example 8pm )
Yes you can inform the school that they stayed with dad's and school will be sympathetic, but ultimately nothing they can do either unless it is a real safeguarding concern (e.g. they can log it such as Charlie came into school very tired and upset. Mum said it was because they stayed at dads at the weekend and she believes they went to bed 10pm or later. Usual bedtime is 8pm.
This could then build a bigger picture should anything happen)

Dad demands they are 'well rested' for time with him, then states that youngest can't sleep due to the limited time they have together. As soon as youngest sees me he cuddles in and cries because he is so tired. Naps everyday at nursery, might miss one nap a week, if at all. I limit the nap to one hour, as does nursery.

I spent Christmas trying to get the youngest to stop napping to try and help with this situation. It didn't work, he isn't ready to drop his nap. Dad won't listen.

Thank you, that is a great idea about the time, I'llgive my son a watch too as dad doesn't have any clocks. We are also talking about listening to our bodies and describing how they feel (talking about tiredness mainly). Which is helping as they were very descriptive this morning about how they were feeling and asked to nap today. Currently eldest has been asleep for 3 hours!

What time do they arrive back to you? Might I suggest having a standard “back from Dad” routine? Cuddles, food (always the same), bath or wash, story and bed.

Finding a standard routine means that for one evening, they just don’t have to think about anything. They know what is coming, they know they like it, Mummy is there and they are safe.

Love this so much, thank you. This is so simple and makes so much sense. Might do the same book too!