Threads about dreams and woo

[Giggorata]

I wish that people would live and let live about these threads. So many people are anxious to present the “rational” view that it simply descends into arguments and loses the point, or else the OP gets discouraged and disappears, or pulls the thread.
This isn't a TAAT, but an observation across the board.

One recent very interesting thread has gone, to which I wanted to reply, including asking the poster not to let a few people put her off from posting an interesting dream.
(Interesting that she seemed to be an observer rather than a participant, which makes me think she might possibly have tapped into something from the past, rather than it arising from her unconscious.)
Replies to woo threads bang on endlessly about earthquakes and mental illness, in the face of events that truly defy “rational” explanation.
Surely the only rational explanation is that we don't know everything and we can't explain everything?

Of course, people are entitled to their views, and to express them, but couldn't they just leave the woo people to it?

Whatever your beliefs, you cannot police what people post. Such threads will attract a spectrum of responses, from those who think it's made up for attention, to those who believe in manifestations of the paranormal, to those who claim a logical reason for events.
As long as the posts don't break talk guidelines, there's nothing you can do.

I knew someone would say this. I'm not trying to police posts, simply wishing the “rational” people would have their say and then let the rest of us get on with discussing the subject.

OP, one of the signs that my cousin needed psychiatric help was his insistence that there was a poltergeist in the house. He was the one doing the moving. Then he said they were talking to him. That's not me dismissing anyone's beliefs, but my experience would be to suggest seeing a Dr.

Then you are. If you say that certain people shouldn't post? That's effectively policing.

If you want a paranormal echo chamber MN is not the place to post

Sorry to hear that about your cousin.
It's not even about beliefs, it's about accepting that not everything can be explained.

I'm not saying people shouldn't post, just that when it's a subject they feel is foolish or whatever, that they would impart their wisdom and then let everyone else discuss it without saying so again and again.

Am I requesting a paranormal echo chamber? I don't think so, just hoping for people's experiences and views, without the repetitive dogmatic responses (from the same people) that it's all bunkum.

There was a similar complaint about threads relating to Christianity a while back, contending that atheists invariably invaded the threads to ridicule and decry believers' accounts and so on. There was a suggestion that if people wanted to discuss religion they should probably post in the section specifically intended for that, and then the atheists and agnostics might be more inclined to leave them to it.

That appears to have happened, and there have been far fewer threads devolving into circular arguments about theological subjects in AIBU recently, so perhaps if "woo" people want to be left alone to discuss woo nonsense, it needs it's own section. If you post in general sections, I don't think you can reasonably expect anything other than generalised responses, including the gamut of views and opinions that come along with that.

I actually agree with you, @Giggorata , I think some things are impossible to explain. I think it's very arrogant to assume that we all have an explanation for everything! It's just about the threads you were talking about. The best thing you can do is just challenge those posters, and engage them in debate - you won't be able to stop them posting.

Some people are so monumentally stupid, and so "open-minded" that their brains have fallen out.

Giving unopposed credence to woo doesn't help to progress humanity.

It's the latest societal diversion (opium for the masses) from all the horrible shit going on in the world. People are mostly making it up, embellishing and straining for patterns in the dark. It's mainly financially benefiting Danny Robins.

If people are bringing woo threads to AIBU then they should exoect to be told, publically and briskly, how unreasonable they are being.

Yes, I think that's a good point, @XDownwiththissortofthingX . A different section for those with such an interest. If it goes in AIBU then it gets the predictable traffic. I think that's why there's a Muslim and a Jewish section, too.

Am I requesting a paranormal echo chamber? I don't think so, just hoping for people's experiences and views, without the repetitive dogmatic responses (from the same people) that it's all bunkum

I'm not trying to police posts, simply wishing the “rational” people would have their say and then let the rest of us get on with discussing the subject

Yes, you are requesting an echo-chamber if all you want is one dissenting post, the dissenter to then bow out, and everyone else to continue on agreeing with each other until they are sated. Nothing wrong with wishing for that, but it's not how generalised sections of a forum function.

It has its own section already. URL is 'the unexplained' and visible title is 'The Paranormal'

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_unexplained

I didn't see the dream thread, but if it was in AIBU or Chat I think it's reasonable to expect some responses from people who firmly deny the existence of any supernatural forces.

Thanks, @MelisandeLongfield - I didn't know about that part of the site.

The thread talking about earthquakes- the OP is literally asking for thoughts on what rational “non-woo” explanations there could be. Feels like it would be more appropriate to ask the woo posters to pull back a bit there…

I think an echo chamber would be one without any dissent at all.

I would expect dissenting views on these threads.
My post is about the repetition and circular arguments that impede discussion and drive OPs away.
(btw, I wasn't referring specifically to the current woo thread when mentioning earthquakes, etc. It has appeared on other woo threads. I agree, that thread is not really for the woo amongst us.)

Thanks for the info about the existing woo place, I didn’t know either. I’ll have a look.

This isn't a TAAT, but an observation across the board.

Just saying something isn't it, doesn't make it so @Giggorata

This is a thread about thread(s). It clearly is.

Yes, I'm trying to make it a thread about threadS.

There's an argument for leaving people to it on the paranormal thread, but not in AIBU where the earthquake one was

I think you're confusing "impedes discussion" with "means the thread doesn't go the way I want it to go".

I think some - me included - would disagree that "not everything can be explained". I personally am not able to explain everything, but yes, I consider that everything that is "observable" using the human senses is susceptible to scientific explanation, even if I am not able to supply that myself. "Unexplained by me (or you)" and "incapable of explanation" are two completely different things.

I accept also that there are things that we may lack the scientific technology/understanding to explain yet (though I don't think flying mobile phones in Wales comes into this category) but that this, again, is different from "incapable of explanation". It is merely "unexplained".

I think it requires a stunning lack of imagination to assume that something you can't explain is not capable of explanation (other than "magic ghosts, innit?"). I have a pretty extensive education and am well aware that there is much that I am not able to adequately explain but that someone with, say, a better grasp of physics might well have no problem explaining.

So interesting. Apologies for planting pink cats in heads. I will need to bear this in mind more when working with young people.

I think yabu, you can't tell people with certain opinions that they can't post so that others with the "right" (in your opinion) opinions can discuss between themselves. That's not how opinion forums work

Goodness me, I didn't imply anything about magic ghosts or incapable ever of explanation (in the fullness of time, given scientific, neurological and yes, esp advancements.)
Just talking about here and now, on these threadS.

You are aware that many physicists have confirmed these things are actual but (not yet) explicable? That many of them even believe in a deity? That both Soviet and USA agencies had/have active research and military use of esp? That some quantum mechanics theories allow for, and actually entertain the concept of, intersecting additional universes that could explain spirit phenomena and time travel?

My tired old point is that there are many things we don't know and can't explain.
Yet. If ever.

Anyhoo, I am now off to do some shopping. It will be a bit interesting to see all the assumptions, sweeping statements and misunderstandings when I get back…

I wasn’t citing physicists as masters of the universe and the ultimate arbiters of what is and isn’t possible 🙄 Yes, many scientists believe in God. But that is a matter of belief not knowledge: the existence or not of a deity is not susceptible to interrogation by the scientific method. So it is not - per se - inconsistent to have a scientist who believes in God.

But that’s a long way from your belief in ESP (which no, no repeatable results supporting its existence have been generated in scientific experiments).

your point is both tired and misconceived: your understanding is - on the evidence of your own posts - flawed and you have failed to understand the distinction between unexplained and incapable of explanation.

So far as such theories exist I am not aware that any have been proved. And even if they were, that is not the same as - to take your example - saying that because something were to prove that there are intersecting universes that this would explain (as opposed to could explain) “spirit phenomena and time travel”.

I’ve long said HPS should be taught in schools but it seems without also upping the curriculum on basic logic, this would be wasted …

Unsure if this will meet with serious thoughts but I assure you all they will be appreciated;

do you believe that dreams of family etc are a visitation by the deceased or are they evidence of unresolved issues that play on our sub conscious.

would love to hear your responses & may I thank you in advance.