To ask if you (also) just ignore your "required" days in the office?

[Everythingisnumbersnow]

I am supposed to do two days. But the office is a minging hotdesk box full of coughing weirdos and the toilets are smeared with shit by 910am.

I can't do my job well in the office so I just don't go. I do manage people and they seem to appreciate the flexibility (half go into the office sometimes, half never do, we perform well).

Anyway it's been a real eye opener for the power of low key just defying silly rules.

Anyone else?

(If they cracked down I'd go elsewhere)

I have to go in. It doesn’t appear to be tracked but due to the nature of my work, if I’m not in the office, it’s very noticeable and I suspect I would get a stern talking to. I’m a poor policy wonk in the CS.

I do know people who go in for the morning and leave at lunch to finish at home for school picks ups etc. perhaps that is an option for you too?

I work three days in the office and two days at home. It's strictly enforced.

YANBU,

The worst thing that will happen is they fire you. But you’re clearly getting promoted so they don’t care and crack on.

It is amazing what you can flex in your terms if you’re willing to walk away. I get other people might dislike it but they could also do the same.

I worked from home long before covid, each member of staff agreed a set number of days per week, but attendance was still monitored and people challenged if they took the piss.
Some staff of course took it to be free childcare, work when you want and exploited it massively.
Post covid, WFH is no longer an essential solution but seen as a perk which companies are reluctant to face-up to as they pay rent on unoccupied space.
There needs to be a middle ground if it's to be utilised effectively.

I wonder if there is a wellbeing issue going on, it really isn't normal to think of workplaces as such extremely revolting germ filled places. Maybe Covid had a lasting effect 🤔.

Op do you do all your shopping online too or is it just colleagues you can't do a face to face with?

There are people on under disciplinary at my place for not doing their 2 days a month in the office. We have 2 set team days. If you can't make them then you're expected to come in a different day. Funny how it is always the same people who have an excuse for not coming in on the team day (it's the same 2 Thursdays every month) and obviously hoping no one would check.

I have a mandated non negotiable weekly Tuesday in the office and tbh I really enjoy it. My workplace are so flexible I'd hate to take advantage and make up my own rules.

I think it depends on the workplace.

like all blanket policies, it always going to not work for many. I completely agree that it’s mad having people sitting alone one day a week because their team is in on other days…or coming in and no-one speaks all day.

however, I do think that some jobs need to be learned through observing others ( more people and relationship based).

and I worry that the lack of visibility thing does more harm to women.

I agree with you. The OP's disdain for other people oozes from her negative comments.

Because an office is literally a disabling environment for me. WFH has been a blissful revelation. I'll never go back in. I hope that offices are generally abolished (I'm not going in so cleaners and office managers can continue to have jobs).

Hope she ends up with some massive domestic problem to manage that would be easy with WFH but necessitates part time or early retirement without (which is reality for a lot of workers).

People suck

I can't wait for the boomer mentality to leave workplaces

You really don't like other people do you? Do you manage a team? Why is working in an office, even a quiet one with clean toilets such a terrible thing for you? If you are a senior manager why haven't you raised the toilet issue with the facilities team? Oh, and my current and last workplace has a team of cleaners who clean the toilets more than once a day.

But please don't wish for offices to be completely abolished. Some of us don't have the space to wfh, or hate wfh, or feel much more productive when in an office environment, or don't want their home to also be their workplace. Please allow us access to offices.

Well said @RichardMarxisinnocent
Wishing lots of people to lose their jobs is nasty. It's the same as all the threads I see on mumsnet when posters rub their hands with glee when yet another retailer goes bankrupt.

Most importantly we have cleaners and colleagues who, it appears, know how to use a toilet correctly.

Same here

I think your view and experiences of workplaces seems pretty limited. And in your own bubble you are asserting that 'your way' is better for everyone including your own staff. That doesn't make you a better manager, it's makes you lacking emotional intelligence.

It given you have nothing to motivate you to go into the office, it's a moot point whether you enjoy it or not, nor do you have much grounds to argue others reasons either because you are not made to go and so choose not to. So why is it such a big deal for you to post about it?

I have no caring responsibilities (cats don’t count) and have a very easy commute and I still don’t meet the policy. I think our policy is two days a week but it’s all very vague and there’s literally no way to track it. If when I went in there felt like a point to it, I’d happily do it. I miss the office craic. I work on various projects and you don’t know who will be in when and even if they are there they are usually booked into a desk a way away from you.

They were hired during the pandemic when the industry was hungry for talents and they didn't specify locations as the job can be done fully remotely so it's not their fault.

Surely if it is in your contract to attend the office for x number of days a week then you have to comply?
Wouldn't not complying incur a disciplinary?

The role I do can be completely WFH, but I go in one day a week because I was asked to even though my contract is a WFH one.

Our old offices have been demolished so we moved location, and the commute is a lot longer for most of my colleagues, but we still go in one day a week.

The difference is that:

I have the same office set up at my desk (we have enough room not to require hot desking) - 2 widescreen monitors
Our toilets are cleaned regularly
Free tea and coffee
Staff discounts so I can buy from our company shop
I like and get on well with my workmates (notice - workmates, not colleagues)
I find engaging with other people in person one day a week refreshing and morale boosting (this is something that the people haters on here will never get)

I admit that I get a lot more done at home because there are no distractions, but I am not a robot and like being with people now and again.

I am a remote worker and I joined my job remotely. My previous job was office based (pre-covid). I find lots of the ‘back to the office’ mentality bizarre. My company HQ is based 150 miles away. Recruiting remotely allows them to widen the net to get the right person for the job rather than a less than ideal person who happens to live locally.

I meet clients all over the UK and working remotely with them has never affected our business relationships or ability to deliver contracts effectively. In fact it helps to demonstrate environmental commitment via our carbon reduction plan.

I find it so odd that people think you have to be in an office to work effectively, so maybe it’s industry dependent, I have all the tools I need to perform my role.

I manage a small team in the workplace that is very flexible with remote working. Some are in 5 days per week, others 1 or 0 days. A lot of the team are quite junior and there is a lot of training involved.

During Covid, things were very hard. We could do training with screen shares but it takes much longer and it hard to know if the junior person really understands. They have tiny laptop screens and can't easily see all the info like you can for an in person meeting. You need to see a screen of code and a diagram of the concepts they are trying to code and the face of the other person. Doesn't work without multiple screens which junior staff in a tiny flat share often can't access.

Now we are back to flexible working, I do notice that the people who come in are more productive and positive. Of the ones who wfh, 1 is great and gets lots done but others are struggling and need much more management which is then hard on me. They miss out on chatting with and learning from their peers and on feeling part of a team.

There may be some jobs that can work on all wfh, but to assume that should be the default for all computer based jobs would be a mistake.

Well good for you but lots of people learn from others and whilst not impossible to do virtually it is easier in person. A balance between wfh and in the office is generally the best and if you don’t respect that then then wfh privilege will end up getting removed as you are taking advantage.
you are an adult so act like it and listen to what your employer requires from you.

Way to make everyone hate Civil Servants - even though the majority DON'T take the piss and do obey the rules, unlike you! And in my day, managers were expected to show a good example to staff.

Sometimes I wonder how many of the posters on MN actually survived prior to the Covid lockdowns, as clearly they can't cope now with doing what we used to as a matter of course.

And some of the arguments about the behaviours of people WFH are very entitled. Not all people are at gym classes as their lunchtime, most of the time they are there in what would normally be "working hours" when their colleagues should be able to contact them if necessary. If they have moved and now have a long commute, that doesn't look good for their ability to forward plan as nobody should have assumed a temporary pandemic would mean permanent WFH. And if one more person tried to tell me they are working just as hard if not better WFH with small children at home so they can save a fortune in Childcare I may scream!

Those commenting about people interrupting them in the office, well good. That means you can't avoid them by not answering the phone when they need to talk to you and you want to avoid them or can't be naffed!

I'm one of those people who works much better in the office due to my ND, and I have so many of the newer starters who I support asking me questions just in passing as I'm sitting there near to where they are sitting, whereas if either of us wasn't there they may not have thought about asking first, would make an error, and I'd have to send it back for correction. I also have access to good quality printers and a massive supply of stationery, and we have plenty of letters that need to go out by post. I also now have contacts in a number of other teams which has proven useful to my teams, as I know more about what they do and who in the team is best to contact.

Then again, I'm one of what appears to be an increasingly smaller number of people who likes to have a 5-10 minute conversation "live" e.g. face to face or over the phone, rather than emails or PMs bouncing back & forth for hours and people getting the wrong end of the stick - at one job, there were 2 people who would converse about work who sat in desks next but one to each other!

I find it so odd that people think you have to be in an office to work effectively, so maybe it’s industry dependent, I have all the tools I need to perform my role.

Of course it is industry dependent. I agree with @parietal that training with screen shares is not the same as in person training. We have a new recruit who has limited excel skills and is finding it hard to learn what is required when most of us are remote most of the time.

I suspect that the people who come in are more productive and positive are people who want to get on with their fellow colleagues and aren't people haters.

This thread has illustrated how depressingly insular so many people have become.

Christ. I can't believe you are a senior manager.

Do you pick and choose all the work polices you want to adhere to?

If you were such an excellent manager you’d be addressing the toilet issues on your teams behalf.

It’s not rocket science to get toilet brushes put in.

Exactly.
Not much managing going on there is there?

I don’t know, I’ve seen several senior managers do precisely this. It is often the case perception is more important than reality.

If your paid hours are too much for the work the employer should be allocating more work or fewer hours.
Perhaps the fact that you are underworked would be too obvious in an office.

Off topic but I’ve worked in offices for 30 years both small and very large corporations and not once have I seen toilets smeared with shit ! Always very very clean

Why do you think obedience is a desirable trait?