Addressing the elephant in the room; people abusing NHS, health and social care.

[Floogal]

I have seen a number of threads (here and on Facebook) bemoaning and worrying about the state of the NHS and social care in the UK. But what about how the general public treats it? Over the years, so many people used these services incorrectly, or even abused it in wanton fashion. There has been recent discussion about people who go to A&E mob handed. As well as a lady forcibly being evicted for overstaying at hospital

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5270258-woman-evicted-from-nhs-hospital-ward-after-being-stuck-for-18-months

I have been working at a council run rehabilitation unit. The majority of patients stay here after being discharged from hospital. They usually stay for around 3 weeks before they're well enough to go home (or sadly sometimes residential or nursing care). However, there is a noticeable minority of patients who seem to treat the place like a hotel. Eg,, staying in bed all morning, watching TV all day in their rooms, Refusing to join in group exercise classes, chatting on their mobiles. Socialising with their visitors for hours on end. I mean, they have plenty of free time in the afternoon and evening to chill out.
Indeed, some of the conversations I've heard make them seem entitled. For example , "I should like some tea and cakes brought to my room for when my guests arrive". Another lady kept ringing her bell as a carer made her tea in a mug, she wanted it put in a China cup. Another male patient turned away a physiotherapist who came in to see him. His reason for turning her away was "I haven't finished reading my morning paper". The best one was this woman complaining that she expects room service and that she's worked and paid her taxes. They're meant to be there for rehabilitation, not the Downton Abbey experience!
Also there are other patients who are ready to go home but are very reluctant to leave. Most likely as they get 3 free meals and company and attention. Which is understandable if they're lonely at home. But that's not what the service is for.
I believe this also contributes to the problem of bed blocking in hospital as patients can't leave hospital due to a lack of space at rehab.

Yes, I too agree with this.

Ok, but it’s their choice to do them or not. Even life-saving surgery isn’t mandatory so why should a bit of group physio be?

It is true. They tried to discharge my 90-something year old mother in law back her home before she was fully recovered and without anyone being there as we were on holiday. Thankfully she refused to go but a lot of other people would have just gone along with it

Because, as I mentioned, it is part of the rehabilitation. Patients just lounging about and not engaging stops other people accessing the services. Why are you being obtuse? Or do you genuinely have difficulty comprehending simple information? (How come it's okay for you to troll me before you think of reporting?)

I think there is good and bad on both sides.

I lived with people when I was younger who didn't bother turning up for NHS appointments at their local surgery and for stitches removal and removing plasters at the local hospital, who then expected new appointments to be made for them straightaway and complained when they weren't.

Equally, I know of people who have waited months for an appointment with their consultant, who have planned a day off work, and bought train tickets etc, only to have their appointment cancelled at the last minute, or they travelled a long way and waited a long time, only for the wrong notes to be there, or test results to be missing, at the actual appointment.

As for the examples in the council run rehabilitation unit you mention op; I have had rehab in an EU hospital after an accident on holiday, and there would be no way that the entitled behaviour you described from patients would have been tolerated. The nurses and physios , who were all very serious and professional, were in your room very early in the morning getting you up and in to the shower, and then you were sent off to the gym or the pool, and you were expected to cooperate, there simply wasn't a choice. If you wanted to stay and get better, it was very strictly on their terms, so I think management has to take some responsibility about the rules they impose and the behaviour they tolerate tbh.

Personally, I think patients paying a small, fair, mean's tested amount for their treatment would help focus minds a bit and discourage patients from blowing off appointments at the last minute and behaving in such an entitled way. And people ringing the emergency services because they want attention. Some people are prepared to pay hundreds of pounds for treatments for their pets, or pay almost a fiver for their morning coffee, and yet are not prepared to stump up a fiver towards a gp appointment? And yet what is more important than our health?

I’m the troll, but you’re the one stooping to calling me obtuse. And “difficulty comprehending information” sounds a lot like you’re calling me stupid too 🙄

A few patients exercising their right to autonomy to not attend a group exercise class isn’t going to stop other patients attending that group exercise class. In fact, the ones that do go will get more one on one assistance.

My point is that even when I was told I need surgery for my breast cancer, it was still my choice to agree to the surgery or not. It was an elective surgery. Just as I have the right to refuse life saving surgery, patients in hospital have the right to refuse group exercise classes. You may not like it or agree with it, but you can’t force them to go nor can you penalise them for their decision.

Exercising your right to refuse treatment is not abuse of the NHS

@Sallyslider653

As for the examples in the council run rehabilitation unit you mention op; I have had rehab in an EU hospital after an accident on holiday, and there would be no way that the entitled behaviour you described from patients would have been tolerated. The nurses and physios , who were all very serious and professional, were in your room very early in the morning getting you up and in to the shower, and then you were sent off to the gym or the pool, and you are expected to cooperate, there simply wasn't a choice. If you wanted to stay and get better, it was very strictly on their terms, so I think management has to take some responsibility about the rules they impose and the behaviour they tolerate tbh.

That is probably the more frustrating part. The management and some of the staff enable this behaviour. Physio and occupational therapists fall behind. The cleaners often can't do their jobs to a high enough standard in the alloted time and get reprimanded. All because someone thinks they're on holiday!!

It should one strike and you're out. The NHS is being crippled by time-wasters.

Crikey, people behaving like people! Whatever next? Staff should make clear what's expected of patients and what's unacceptable.

Of course it's true. It happened to my Dad.

Discharged while still ill, unable to walk or properly feed himself. He'd been in for two weeks with bilateral pneumonia and had become very weak. They wanted the bed though.

He was supposed to be discharged to an assessment/rehab facility but they couldn't find one so just sent him home. He got much worse again, unsurprisingly, and was readmitted a few days later as the infection returned with a vengeance. He didn't improve again this second time and he died.

What is it that you are so confidently saying doesn't happen??

There we are then. However, the grave will be a lot sooner if the young people don't get their lifestyle choices under control!!

This is now the ballgame we are in.