To believe that people should have to pass a test to vote?

[ZanyWriter]

If you can’t understand basic political issues or policies, why should your vote count as much as someone who does? AIBU to think voting shouldn’t be a universal right?

Definitely agree about jurors.

Exactly. There were also British ex pats who lived in Spain who said, with no sense of irony whatsoever, that they were voting for Brexit 'because there's too much immigration these days'.

You couldn't make it up and we gave up a lot of benefits as a country because of some thick racists who had no clue what they were voting for.

We now see people complaining that prices have increased, you have to pay import taxes when buying goods from Europe, there's limits on travelling to the EU etc etc and 52% of people who voted, voted for that to happen.

Oh God, yes.

When I was on a jury, the few of us with half a brain spent all day arguing with the people who thought a person was guilty because 'you could tell by looking at them' or the people who came in the next day having, against the specific instructions of the judge, googled the person on trial so now knew all about their previous criminal past 'so they were definitely guilty of the crime they were on trial for'. Be that as it may, that's not how it works.

I hope you reported that and didn’t just go ahead deliberating with them.

Hate to break it to you but we entrust people with vital tasks every day with no proven skill or knowledge. Ever heard of any mandatory checks before conceiving and parenting? Or becoming a carer for a relative? Or having a pet? Or ferrying a baby through heavy traffic on a bike? All of those have very serious consequences, infinitely more serious than the effect of one person's vote, but there's only ever checks done after there's concern for how well that person is performing that task.

Why should voting, a pretty minor task on an individual basis, be any different? Or do you think a large enough minority, enough to make a difference, would fail?

No, just because people vote for parties or people you don't like doesn't mean you can remove their right to vote.
That's democracy.

The people we vote for are often not equipped to do the job anyway

Lots of people are in positions of power who have no business being there.

Unfortunately that could be hugely manipulated.

And even thick people have a right to representation.

Better education for everyone - some sort on understanding of how politics and economics work in schools - that I could get behind.

Problem is, people want to avoid being jurors so would deliberately fail the test.

Depends what sort of average you mean

Maybe not an intelligence test, but a mandatory course on how a democratic government and the electoral systems function? It could be on an app (with other accessible options), and you would have to prove you had read it before getting your polling card.

Combined with a massive crackdown on bias and propaganda in both traditional and social media.

omg I was on a jury once. I was shocked.

Radical option: what if only taxpayers, the partners of taxpayers were allowed to vote? These are the people with real skin in the game. And what if those people got an extra vote on behalf of their children under 18?

I was in a cafe once, and two ladies were having a catch up. One had done jury service since they last saw each other, and proceeded to recount details of the deliberations, all sorts of really detailed stuff, and then capped it off with 'of course most of us could tell he was guilty the minute we clapped eyes on him. You just know, don't you.' my jaw was on the floor. I lost faith in trial by jury being in any way fair at that point. Terrifying actually, any one of us could be innocent and find ourselves in front of 12 of these muppets.

@Bjorkdidit @RhaenysRocks
That illustrates the point.
Conversely you had people voting to remain because they didn't want to queue at airports and wanted free travel with a sandwich.
No thought at all to the wider implications of being in the eu so if one wants to:go down the sheer naval gazing stupidity route :it cancels itself out.

• I know someone who was called to jury trial, the least clever compassionate person you could wish to meet with no capability of looking deeper and weighing things up.

She's in a position of some power.

So effectively abolish the voter reform act? I can't see how that could possibly go wrong.

So people on benefits have no skin in the game? What nonsense.

I don’t think people should have to pass a test, but if I made the rules, the ballot slip would be a blank piece of paper onto which you would have to write the name of your preferred candidate. I don’t think it’s too much to expect people to know who they’re voting for. And don’t get me started on postal votes - as long ago as 2005, a judge said they weren’t fit for purpose -“ Richard Mawrey QC, presiding over a special election court in Birmingham, warned that there were no realistic systems in place to detect or prevent postal voting fraud at the general election. "Until there are, fraud will continue unabated," he said. (Guardian, April 5th 2005)

I take it you missed my question about people who currently pay tax (and a fuck of a lot of it in some cases) but aren't citizens ?

Or are you suggesting you should be able to buy your citizenship with taxes ?

In which case what about indigenous non-taxpayers ?

Are you sure you have posted on the wrong thread ? The one about populism is thataway -->

Illustrates what point? Yes I'm absolutely sure there are people on all sides voting out of ignorance but I don't think we should just shrug and accept that.
@Beeday my cousin had a care order on him before birth and he was taken away and adopted by my uncle and aunt. It's a pretty high bar but actually there are safeguards in place for really incapable people to stop them parenting. It's an incredibly hard and difficult line of travel but not impossible. Noone is suggesting you need a politics degree but the most basic level of understanding who.is who and who stands for what, again, with wording from the manifestos so no spin allowed.

I would say it is more important to pass a test to be a parent

Democracy is a bit of an illusion, if the machinations over the post brexit vote fall-out didn't show you that , then you weren't really watching.

I wondered about parenting licences....or maybe a voucher. Each person gets one child voucher and those who don't want children can give them to people who do.
Or should we limit the number of child vouchers to deal with overpopulation, we could have some sort of lottery. Win a child or a weekend away.

You realise you have in fact proven my point - there must have already been concerns about your cousin's parents abilities for any investigation or consideration of the care order to take place? There wasn't a mandatory test they had to complete that they failed and were then not allowed to be parents?
Something like 99% of people that conceived on the same day as them were allowed to become parents and look after a baby without completing any skill test?

So using your example, you're actually advocating for a way of investigating people's capacity when concerns are raised and perhaps taking voting rights away if they're proven incapable? That's something entirely different to testing everyone first before they're allowed to vote.

Oh Jesus Wept. So basically you think your opinion is superior to anyone else's. Ever heard of not judging someone and their opinions until you've walked in their shoes?

You walk a mile in their shoes....by the time they realise, they can't catch up as you're a mile away and they've got no shoes.