Negotiating separation (not married with children)

[Whattodoforthebesteek]

Hello, thank you in advance for any advice.

I have been with partner for 15 years, we have two children 9 and 5. we have agreed to amicably (for now) separate. We have a shared ownership contract on our current house 50% each. He wants to buy me out, but has packaged it as him doing me a huge favour and it being for the benefits of the kids, but he has also said, he is too busy to move house or deal with this and that he is picky on where he would be willing to buy and live.

History, in beginning he moved into my flat rent free, and rented his out using the income to pay off debts, he was generous doing DIY on my flat and paying when we went out.
We moved into our first home when our daughter was due 10 years ago, and had a ownership agreement, I think it was 70:30 in my favour, the mortgage was based on my income alone due to the fact he had been made redundant and hadn't been self employed for a long enough time at that point to be considered. I need to be financially stable, so I had saved enough for my mat leave (she took a long time to get) to be able to pay my half of everything throughout. However by the time we had our Son I think he covered more of the costs.
Then 4 years ago we moved into a new home, and increased the mortgage. Up until this point, I had paid at least half of the bills and overheads, at least. But i do acknowledge that when we moved to the current house I continue to work part time, 28 hours, to allow him to concentrate on his business and for me to do the majority of the school runs.
He took out money from the business to put towards the house and we changed the contract to 50:50. I am a nutter, I try to pay off some of the mortgage here and there as and when we can, it gives me a glow. Then he has used his dividends to pay off the mortgages as well.
I did take a one year sabbatical from work to look after our son because he was struggling with undiagnosed asthma at the time, and i was doing my hours in the evenings and at weekends, and something had to give. During this year I was put on his payroll for some light admin duties, which i did do, however this set up is still in place now that I am back at work, but this goes directly into the joint account to wards the house, and i put in too and he puts in a bigger chunk bi-annually.

What do you think?

a) do I see the win, take the equity (which is fairly mine) move on and get my own mortgage and not look back (don't have to sell the house, align chains, disrupt the kids, and (my other half - i cant say that any more) he has OCD so he would paint the whole house and other crazy things before we could look to sell it, it would definitely be long winded

or

b) do i negotiate.

1. We have a mortgage until Aug 26 at 1.29% (which i found and applied for), and to be able to buy me out he is assuming he keeps that. I have worked out half of the financial benefit of this rate versus what I will have to take out in the current climate - is that petty? it is £190 a month

2.We currently have two mortgages, one runs out this coming June, and we were going to pay off the balance. However, to be able to afford to buy my half of the house he will no longer pay this off as planned (obviously meaning my equity is not as high as it would have been if we had split in June). I am kicking myself as he had this money ready to go into the joint account but I suggested he used it to buy his RIDICULOUS car to prevent him taking out finance. I think I need to let this go as it is his savings (but it grates me all the sacrifices I have made to support his business to allow him to have such money that he now feels is all his. I had hyperemesis with my daughter, hyper salivation carrying my son, 4 pregnancy losses and a very recent prolapse which has led to surgery)

3.I currently own 10% - 12.5% (cant remeber) share of his company, and he is telling me I will get a letter to sign them back over. I've never liked being told, who does. but if I want to negotiate this is my leverage, but do i want to be the person who leverages anything against their children's dad.

Advice from friends is varied (i haven't actually told many people yet as until we tell the kids it doesn't feel right, and we have been advised not to tell the kids until we have a plan).

• Stand ground and ask for minimum an acknowledgement that he wouldn't have what he has without me (for my sanity)
• request mediation to agree fair settlement, i wont loose anything other than half of the fee for the mtg,
• take the high ground, walk away, focus on getting a clear head and a happy home set up for me and the kids and let it go.

Thank you for any advice, but please be kind, if you think i am a grubby money grabber just steer me towards leave with head held high.

Some but not all of your blurb about who paid what is irrelevant. If this went to divorce court they’d be looking less at the past as you made those decisions as a couple and more at a fair division of assets (including his ridiculous car) and equity in the home to ensure you both can live, have the kids in whatever proportion, pension equality etc.

He’s trying to fast track this and you’ll be kicking yourself if you do that “walk away head high clear head”. That’s bullshit. as much as his excuses about too busy to move etc.

Get what’s yours. You’ll likely end up with most of the burden on the kids and they do NOT get cheaper with age. Cut the emotional crap and think of this as a business transaction. The relationship is over.

Download the business accounts and get a valuation - he really should be buying you out of the business not just expecting you to sign your share back over.

So yes, get legal advice, slow him down with mediation (he’ll be furious) and keep it professional.

Also why are you moving out and not him? The kids are staying with him? I don’t get it. This isn’t mathing.

I’d look at it as 2 things.

1. Take the 50%
2. He needs to purchase your shares in his business at the market rate - this will effectively net off the disparity you feel there is in the house % anyway. Otherwise why did he give you the shares? I assume it was done for a reason, your security being the obvious one…so you need to benefit from that.

You don’t have any other options if you’re not married. The only options financially are above, or opt not to agree to sell to him, or give the shares to him for free (but why should you?).

Irrelevant as they’re not married.

Take the 50% and put it towards a new home.

He needs to buy your percentage of the business or give you a bit more of the equity of the house.

You need to look at what is actually yours, and what’s actually his. 50% of the house (minus mortgages) is yours. 10/12% of the business is yours.

Have you had the property valued? Do you both agree on the value?

You don’t have to give him the 10/12% of the business back, you can sell them back or you can keep them. What’s the nature of the business? Would it be very easy for him to wind it up and start again with a new venture cutting you out?

Not at all irrelevant. The notion that there is no leverage when you are not married is bs and especially when there are kids.

She needs a proper financial evaluation to calculate a fair split - like if she is moving she’ll need to consider fees and duties and her mortgage affordability, deposit etc.
Depending on how long the amicable separation stays amicable, there is also a parenting agreement to be considered.

He’s clearly trying to get rid quickly and it is not irrelevant for her to take advice and get smart about this.

Sorry if I've missed it, but who will the children spend most of their time with? Or will you enter 50/50 custody arrangements? What impact do the children's living arrangements/ childcare needs have on you, your income/ outgoings and career/ job/ earning potential vs his. I'd likely start with considering that, and maybe look at mediation if there are other impacts to consider. Either way though, you're not married and neither of you have the protections that marriages brings, so keeping things amicable is a must.

And if they stalemate, then what? He can take it to court and they will simply tell them both that they each own what they own: 50% of the house each and she owns that % of the business. There is no ambiguity and no means to enforce "leverage".

How do you know? Have you seen the accounts for his business? Know what the value of her share is? Do you know how much equity they have? What her onward property is likely to cost? Who is housing the kids the majority of the time?

There is a LOT here that can be discussed in a proper process with the right advice and mediation.

What’s wrong with him buying you out of the property, is it that you’d prefer to buy him out?

I had a very similar conversation with a solicitor yesterday - unmarried, splitting up, two properties in varying percentages. She was very clear that only Property Law applies in these cases, and each person is entitled to their percentage share of the equity. No consideration of who contributed what etc can be taken into account unfortunately. Any challenge to this on court could cost upwards of £20k each, and is not guaranteed to be successful.

You can certainly negotiate with him, and should definitely get a value for the company shares, but the legal position for the property is quite clear. Which is annoying in my case, as I've paid everything for the last two years while he chose not to work, but it is what it is.

I think it depends on the sums involved, but given how many issues there are here getting personal legal advice, mediation or counselling for yourself so you can put forward a good counter proposal would be a next step. It can still be amicable, but it feels like he is telling you what’s going to happen, and you’re just bringing up lots of complicated history about the kids and your financial arrangements in the past.

1. If he doesn’t want to bother moving then an arrangement that compensates you for the time, hassle, stamp duty, buying costs etc would be fair otherwise you split the equity but you have all this extra cost and work.
2. Don’t give up a % in a profitable company that you supported him to build without having it valued and being compensated.
3. Don’t rush - with (from what i understand) a lower income having taken time out with the children, so you’ll need a timetable that allows you to prepare financially and take proper advice.

What do you mean by him buying you out and him then moving out? I thought if he bought you out, he's basically giving you your share of the property so you leave. Otherwise youre buying him out.
It doesnt make sense that he would pay you and move out. Sorry if I've misunderstood.

What do you actually want? If you want 50% then you need to work oit what you want 50% of.

How much is the company (and therefore your shares) worth? How much is the house worth? I wouldn't sign over shares without being compensated financially, either for money or to lower what his share of the house is.

He wants 50 50 with the kids, but given he is so busy with work and can't consider moving, i am not sure if he will be able to deliver. I would happily have them 100% of the time, and will do if anything changes. For now, the plan is 50 50. I have requested to go full time at work and i am just waiting to hear back.

No, I do not want the house, he is welcome to buy me out of the property, my point is that given he has access to funds to be able to afford a significant amount of money to buy me out, shouldn't some of that be mine to put towards a more equal house for me (and the kids) too? I supported him whilst he had nothing and whist he paid off a significant amount of debt and helped him to where he is now, but he doesn't see my worth in any of that and has defaulted to it being his, and my benefit is that, if he keeps everything he can afford to buy me out and keep the BIG FANCY house and all under the herodom of it not disrupting the kids (which is valid).

Unfortunately, you are not married and the law is on his side. Tbh even if you were married, past support of him would not be considered in making a divorce settlement, and since you aren't married there isn't any divorce settlement. There's just what each of you separately owns. You can ask him to give you a sum of money, but he can, as he has done, just say a flat no and that's the end of it, legally speaking.

Here is my response from a solicitor: You are not entitled to anything beyond your legal ownership of assets. You own half the house, so you're entitled to half the equity. His company is separate unless you have a legal claim, which you don’t since there were no formal agreements about your financial support. You do not have to sign over your shares for nothing—he either buys them from you, or you keep them. His argument about the house and the children’s stability is emotional leverage, not a legal matter. Get proper valuations and don’t be rushed.

Thank you all for your thoughts, questions, advice, knowledge

Will the 50% equity you have in the house mean you can afford a house that's big enough for you and the children - potentially for more than 50% of the time? If you don't go full time, where does that leave you financially? Is he the higher earner? If you go 50/50 custody he will also owe you no maintenance.

These are all things you need to be asking yourself before deciding whether or not to negotiate further via mediation. But unfortunately you would be largely relying on his 'good will'.

Do not give up your share in the business!!!

how much is the offer? For the house

and 50/50 means he doesn’t pay you maintenance so that would be a no from me!