To think most of you don’t know Mumsnet are now requiring acceptance of cookie tracking or payment to use the site?

[OldChairMan]

… as MN have only posted in Site Stuff:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5268190-introducing-pay-or-consent-on-mumsnet?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Many will click on “Read for free” without realising that this is a change in the site’s terms.

“Hello everyone.

We wanted to give you a heads-up about a change in the way we deal with cookie consent. We are introducing a Pay or Consent model, giving you two different options to continue accessing the site:

• Continue for free with cookies and ads: this is the option that most people have enabled already.
• Subscribe to Mumsnet Premium: For those who prefer an ad-free experience with no cookies/tracking for ad purposes - Besides ad-free you’ll also get first access to our product tests plus all revenues from Premium are put towards our campaigning work

Why are we making this change?

The pay or consent model is becoming increasingly common across online platforms as publishers adapt to changes in advertising levels and data privacy regulations. Like many other publishers, we relied on advertising to generate income but changes in tracking regulation and the growing use of ad blockers have made this model less viable.

We know that Mumsnet is an essential space for many - a place to seek advice, find support, and connect with your fellow Mumsnetters. That’s why we’re committed to ensuring that the site remains free at the point of use for anyone who needs it but it’s not fair that those who install ad blockers or rejected cookies are piggy backing on the back of other users who haven’t.

At the same time as introducing this, we’re going to reduce the price of Mumsnet Premium to £2.99 a month because we want to be fair to those who’d rather not accept advertising cookies. This is less than the cost of a flat white a month from most decent coffee shops and we very much hope you think Mumsnet’s worth it! Nb anyone who’s signed up to Mumsnet Premium already at the previous price (£4.99 per month) will have their payments reduced within the next week or so.

We’ll be here to answer any questions you may have. Thank you, as always, for supporting Mumsnet.”

There are some excellent posts on the Site Stuff thread explaining about digital fingerprinting and how badly this has been set up by MN. For example, you have to accept cookie tracking before you can access the privacy policy, as MN suggests, in order to make an informed choice. @Smashandflab suggests that this is illegal. The depth and breadth of knowledge within the membership means that MN can't get away with cocking things up without someone pointing it out and suggesting a better way forward. If only they had listened more to informed posters over the years. The arrogance is grating.

That's not true about the privacy policy. The link to the policy is right there on the consent popup.

Am I the only one that never got a consent pop-up?

Mine didn’t have a link. It just said “For more details, see our Privacy Policy.”. No link included.

Well, you can try it now in an Incognito window. It's exactly that text, but "privacy policy" is a link.

No it is not. I just looked at it.

The drop downs work but “Privacy Policy” is not a hyperlink.

(Private window, iPhone/Safari.)

Aha, interesting - it is a link on all desktop browsers. Just tried it on Android, and it's not, and the same thing happens using dev mode in Chrome on a desktop and reducing the viewport to a mobile size.

Even more curious...on a desktop, it says there are 199 third-party cookie partners, but on mobile it says there are 181.

I just tried it in an incognito window on Chrome. Privacy Policy is a hyperlink, but it just describes the policy. Policy Settings is something different and can only be accessed once you've accepted.

Would all of this explain why after accepting to use the site with cookies I started to get MN emails for discounts?

Yes that’s right, 181 is what I am seeing.

Sorry, I mis-typed: should say Privacy Policy is a hyperlink, but Privacy Settings can only be accessed once you've accepted.

That in itself isn't unusual - Privacy Settings can only act on data that's created locally when you click Accept on the main popup. Think of it as the "edit" function...and you can't edit nothing.

Exactly the same for me, and same circumstances.

The cookies are to build a profile of users, what websites they visit, browsers used, searches done, location so that MN can sell advertising to companies looking for those demographics.

If you subscribe, do you still get fed ads, or is advertising removed?

Subscribing gives you virtually no ads - very occasionally one small unobtrusive one for a Mumsnet feature, but no external ads. Also no ads disguised as threads. Much better browsing experience - on the odd occasion that there is a bug in the system and I get ads I really notice the site slowing down

I do not trust MN with my financial details. They have already being hacked and my name and email address was stolen.

Apparently MN won’t hold any financial details. On the Site Stuff thread, @BeckyAMumsnet said:

“For those asking about Premium subscriptions and the security of your payment details - all payments are processed securely through Stripe, a trusted payment provider used by millions of businesses worldwide. Your card details are encrypted, we cannot see them and they're never stored by us.”

@OldChairMan thank you for drawing my attention to this.

I thought it was just an advert for the premium service which I was declining - so don't feel I gave free or informed consent there.

Thinking on it further, although I can use different usernames for different talk topics, Mumsnet can join the dots and across all my posts have enough detail to identify my child, which is quite scary. I'm going to let Mumsnet fade into the background now. I probably spent too much time on here anyway.

Informed consent is the law. If you can’t make an informed choice because you can’t access the information to inform your decision AND actively opt out of cookies without being forced to accept cookies to read the information and act upon it, that’s clearly illegal. I’ll have another look over the weekend and report to ICO. I will also email the DPO at mumsnet to see if they are able to articulate how the new set up meets legal requirements.

@Smashandflab @bluegreygreen @SquirrelGrey @countingdaysuntilretirement @MarsScarlet @IgoogledYOLO
Hope you don't mind me tagging you all together, but I've seen your posts about not being able to opt out of cookies.

Firstly if you use Firefox browser cross-site cookies are disabled/blocked - there are other browsers like DuckDuckGo and Brave which apparently do the same. You can isolate the site even more if you use a "private window".

To opt out of cookies all together, when you put the mumsnet url into the address bar and the window saying about accepting or paying pops up, in very small print underneath the buttons it says:
"We and our 199 partners may store and access personal data like cookies, unique identifiers, etc etc."

Click on the "199 partners". It brings you to another pop up showing a list of vendors. (Heading is "mumsnet _ manage your data). Underneath the heading the small print has some blurb, but it also has a hyperlink (blue) towards the end saying "reject all".

Click that and you're on to the front page of the site. Scroll to the very bottom of the page (the blue bit) and along with "Help", "contact us" etc there's "privacy settings". Click on that and it will bring up the list of purposes, site vendors and they should all be turned off.

Then log in to the site and continue as usual.

[If you've already agreed to cookies to access the site you'll probably have to clear your cookies if you're not using a "private window" to get the pop-up to appear again. If you clear them all it will log you out of any sites you are already logged into.)

They really haven't made it obvious how to opt out but I hope that helps.

(BTW - I'm using uBlock origin ad blocker for Firefox and site is working atm with it. Prepared to turn it off if they sort out the problems they keep having with dodgy ads.)

Is the idea behind introducing it the day after those posts that if you pay, you might avoid seeing images of child sexual abuse and infected labia overnight?

It's not a marketing strategy I'd choose.

the timing of it is pretty bad to say the least!

The Site Stuff announcement is pretty clear that they will be requiring people to accept cookies or subscribe.

While I agree that it is still possible to reject cookies doing what you describe (I have done it and am still posting), my suspicion is that this option will soon be removed. Hopefully combined with new wording at the pop-up stage that makes it clear that “Accept” means accept both cookies and ads with no ability to opt out unless you pay.

Because the alternative is that their announcement was wrong.

Do you have any instructions for chrome?

This is what I would like to know.
People mocking me may feel very superior.
However I regard that as a lack of understanding.
That people differ. Have different experiences and background and eras.
There may be things I understand that one of you do not.

These machines and the whole world of them is not my milieu.
When I did O Level Maths no one used a calculator not even in the class let alone the exam.
I remember the teacher telling us about them. We never saw one.
They were not widely available.
So now all this here is also terra incognito for me.
Some helpful simple explanation of the main hazards would be appreciated.
For many years I was a volunteer with the adult literacy scheme.
It was most fulfilling.
I never thought to say to a learner
How can you not know that ??