Carpenter..is this normal?!

[Kmward36]

We’ve had a carpenter in to panel our hallway, stairs and landing. We’ve had him work for us plenty of times before and he’s quirky but work is good so no problems.

hes driving me a bit mad this time but I am 38 weeks pregnant and unsure if I’m being ridiculous?!

1. said the job would take 2 days, we’re currently on day 6.
2. he spent the first ‘day’ drawing the plans on the wall and then went to MOT his car at 11am and did not return that day.
3. he arrives at 10am because the school traffic around him is awful. He lives 1/2 from us. He has an hour and a half lunch break and finishes at 4. I don’t really feel like that’s a full days work..
4. He keeps sending us back to the shop for supplies. As in we went to screwfix Saturday morning and when we arrived home (it is sadly 40mins away) he asked us to go back. None of his day is taken up picking up supplies as we do that.
5. he was meant to turn up on Friday but couldn’t as he forgot he needed to file his tax returns. He told us at 10am.
6. he was 3 hours late on Saturday as he didn’t realise it was the first of the month and needed to tax his car. Couldn’t find slip/log book etc 🤦🏻‍♀️
7. we feel we can’t really leave him to it as he has so many coffees a day (8 on Saturday) and rings constantly asking questions.

am I being hormonal?! My husband says I am but it’s not helping as I’m keep to get things in order for the baby (3rd baby) and it’s just a bit chaotic with the mess and 2 other children. Or is this ok and I’m being annoying??

That sounds so frustrating

'Can you give me an exact time and date that you'll be done please? I'm not able to go out to collect supplies for you anymore due to <insert pregnancy related work type excuse > and I'll be in xyz room doing some admin work so can't be disturbed'

Don't use this annoying twat again

Yeah he's not good.

Are you paying him by the day or for the job?

WTF are you giving this guy any work?

Bin him off and get someone who behaves like a professional. He is taking the piss because you are letting him.

By the job thankfully but it’s incredibly frustrating and I just want to tell him to go away 🤦🏻‍♀️

What's his hourly rate? Keep a tally of his hours and only pay those. Expecting you to buy his supplies is a piss take but you're not only putting up with him, you're making him hot beverages. I'd pay him off and get someone else in.

He is massively taking the piss.

Me and my dad panelled in three hours on Friday night. We finished it Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning.

From start to finish we estimated we could have done the fitting and prep in about 4-5 hours. It only took the weekend because of allowing the primer and paint to dry in between coats.

You're not being hormonal at all. The guy is taking the piss big time. Make sure to let him know that you'll only be paying for the time he's actually done, you're not paying for him to tax his car and start late finish early.

Can I ask how much he is charging? He does not sound professional at all.

I think I know this carpenter 😂 I didn’t use him again. The thing is, even though I was paying an agreed amount for the job, he asked for more as it “took longer than he thought”. It was too hard to disagree given his hours were so erratic so I paid and mentally noted not to use him again. Wasn’t even happy with the job - he had to make two shaped cuts and only one was right 🙄

YABU

If he’s on a fixed rate, why does it bother you, particularly if he’s an excellent carpenter?

Wouldn’t you rather have a good job done or would you rather have a crap rushed job?

I think you need to think about it and be realistic with your expectations.

I would find this infuriating .
i would not like the extended disruption and would prefer him to do the job in a concise window of time.
i would also not be doing a job on a daily rate, so then I would be less concerned by his hours.

@Kmward36 am I being hormonal?! My husband says I am

Is he serious? If he is, he needs to spend some time trying to understand what hormonal actually means as opposed to being frustrated where most people would feel the same way!

I once had a guy doing some work on our garden, who was exactly like the carpenter you are describing. Firstly, he never turned up before midday. Then he'd go shopping for the bits and pieces that he needed for that day's work. Eventually, he'd start work around 2pm but would always finish at around 4pm, which is more normal for people who started around 8-9am. However, since he never started around 8-9 or even 10am, I wasn't happy with his 2-hours-per-day work because obviously that made me feel like the work was going to take forever and a day to complete. In the end he still wasn't done after 6 months and I had to get rid of him. I paid him only for the work he'd completed up to that point and nothing else. And, no, I didn't think I was being hormonal! I know that a lot of people book multiple jobs and then try to do a little bit here, there and everywhere and to some extent that can be tolerated but this guy exceeded all limits of my patience when he took 6 months for the work that should have only lasted 6 weeks!

So, no, I don't think you are being hormonal and I would probably start looking for another carpenter!

@Lighteningstrikes If he’s on a fixed rate, why does it bother you, particularly if he’s an excellent carpenter?

I know what you mean about the fixed rate but there is also a limit to the amount of time that anyone should take to complete work in your house. When someone turns up for brief periods of time in a day and can't organise work properly even during those periods, the work just drags on and I am sure nobody like having carpenters or anyone else about their houses for months on end!

Did you actually read the OP?

Mainly because I have had to take 4 days additional annual leave days to make sure someone is in the house when he is

Sounds like he has another job on at the same time.

If you're paying him an agreed rate for the job rather than an hourly rate, and his work is good, then I don't really see the problem. At 38 weeks pregnant I'm sure taking a bit of extra leave will be quite welcome!

It's not very professional of him. Two days' work usually means two days in a row (or as close to this as possible), not 16 working hours spread over a week. It's ridiculous for anyone to say it doesn't matter just because he's on a fixed rate. He should get the job done, get paid and go. That's normal. We've had a few tradesmen like that too. You'd have thought the guy painting our loft conversion was throwing a couple of coats on the Great Wall of China. It took nearly a month. I was utterly fed up with the cancellations, him turning up for half an hour on a Sunday morning, nipping out umpteen times for materials, dust sheets up and down like bloody yo-yo's. It's always hard when work has already started and you're left trying to decide whether to persevere or risk waiting weeks for someone else who has a long waiting list precisely because they're actually reliable and professional.

If you're paying him an agreed rate for the job rather than an hourly rate, and his work is good, then I don't really see the problem. At 38 weeks pregnant I'm sure taking a bit of extra leave will be quite welcome!

It's hardly relaxing though, is it. If he says 2 days, it should be 2 days unless something unexpected happens. He isn't managing his time well.

If your job was to be somewhere between 9 and 5, and you were constantly late, taking time away from work to do personal errands, and didn't plan to have everything you needed for the job and kept asking your boss to go get it, would you have a job at the end of the week?

OP is employing this guy. He is on her clock. He should turn up, do the job, then leave.

@Kmward36 it isn't normal practice to do this. Most tradesmen will be far more reliable than this, although the standards are wildly variable and when there is a glut of work (as there is at the moment) you will find good trades harder to get. The only recourse you have is not to use this guy again. If he's done work for you before and he has done things like this before, you have established what he thinks are acceptable rules for working with you. I'd suggest you tell him he needs to finish by x date or you won't be paying him the full amount. He has, after all, broken the verbal contract you have. And just don't use him again.

< first two lines should have been in bold above >

He sounds completely useless.

Re tax return - why on earth would he need to take time from doing your scheduled work to do this? It should be done in his own time, speaking as a fellow self employed person. I would never cancel time at the last minute with paying clients to go do my tax return.

Taxing car - again, a job to be done in your own time. Also, it take 2 seconds you can just do it online etc.

Getting supplies - should be done in his own time and ready before the days work. Again, I would never dream of doing this to my clients. When H was a joiner he would make sure he had everything he needed and we would often be at supply stores at weekends or he would pop in on his way home etc. If there was something unexpected and urgent then he might have to pop out but that was quite rare.

When I hire tradesmen I am absolutely boggles by their (some, not all of course!) approach and treatment of their clients. Sometimes they're so patronising, or disorganised, or just treat the working day with utter contempt as you are describing in your post. If I treated my clients this way I would not have my business.

In conclusion, yanbu.

He’s taking the piss. You’re the paying customer but he’s calling all the shots. I’m guessing he gets away with it because people like his work and are willing to put up with him being “quirky” (what he’s actually doing is being utterly unprofessional and probably doing other jobs at the same time).
This is not acceptable:
He keeps sending us back to the shop for supplies. As in we went to screwfix Saturday morning and when we arrived home (it is sadly 40mins away) he asked us to go back. None of his day is taken up picking up supplies as we do that.
Why isn’t he buying the supplies and why is he sending you to the shop like his assistants? That would be a firm no from me.

And how DARE your husband say it’s you being hormonal. Does he often dismiss you like this? Is he always a weak wet lettuce with tradesmen, letting them walk all over him?

I think it's unprofessional because it's so disorganised. These problems could easily have been averted. He should recognise that he takes longer than anticipated to complete jobs and give himself (and you) a realistic timeline. Extending a job by 4 days without reason is just poor planning. As is failing to tell you in advance all the items needed for the job. Again, if something unexpected has turned up, fair enough he may need different materials, but you haven't indicated this is the case.

He clearly has poor time management. However, if you're happy with the end result and the price, if you use him for other work in the future, just factor the lack of time management into your own plans and add two weeks onto any quote he gives. Also ask him to list in advance the materials needed and say if anything extra is needed (which could have been forseen), he will have to get it himself.

The problem is that if someone is being paid for a job which involves being in someone's home, that person should crack the fuck on and not take the piss.