Recent study of children joining reception class

[Liveandletlive18]

A recent study by kindred2 of a 1000 teachers resulted in finding a quarter of children today joined reception class when still in nappies. Many children are unable to climb a staircase or sit properly on the floor due to lack of exercise & muscle tone. The children used expressions more common in America such as trash & vacation due to excessive screen time. Teachers stated covid is no longer an excuse. They say a lot of this is due to busy parents working & having less time to interact with children & teach them basic skills. Is this a worrying trend.

Chiming in here to say where I live in a big city nearly all of our local nurseries are open 10-11 hours a day. The majority open at around 8 and close at 7. However, the local pre-schools (from age 2/3 onwards) do around 8am-4pm.

Well said! What works for one, doesn't mean it works for others but there are still some parents out there trying to do the best for their kids whether they are in nursery or cared for at home.

I am a child of the 60's, my parents both worked and we didn't have half of the labour saving devices there are now. Not only was I capable of going to the loo by myself, I could read and write and my Mum and Dad weren't rocket scientists! A child that came to school in nappies was an extreme rarity and was usually something medically related.

But then as a child we weren't sat watching TV or computers all the time, we were running around, playing games, building dens and using our imagination.

Oh crikey, definitely sounding like my mum now!

I think the problem is that parents don't look after themselves as well as they could and as such struggle to look after their children productively. Working or sahp.

Parents don't sleep enough. Or not well enough. They themselves are on their phone or tablets too late, because doing so is relaxing. They wake up after a poor quality night sleep. They are already tired. They get through the day just coping until they can finally relax. When they should involved their kids with their activities like cooking, they instead send them to watch crap because cooking is a task to do as quickly as possible and so without the kids. Same with other chores or fun activities. They feel guilty so take them to expensive fun activities during the weekend, when again, they try to interact minimally because they are tired. They put diapers on their kids because it's easier and quicker. They will do better next day, next week, next month, but the same happens again the following day.

Everything becomes a vicious cycle. What we need is parents focusing on being mentally and physically healthier so they can have more energy to educate their kids to be healthy themselves. And enjoy it rather than considering all these tasks as chores.

As a teacher who works with vulnerable students- it's not your children this is talking about and its not to do with low income, having SEND or being from another country. It's the children who are never read to, who spend all weekend every weekend watching tv or on a device as they get older, who never go to museums/library/playgrounds, who's parents don't talk to them when they shop/cook/pick them up from school, who never come to parents evening or have interest in what their children are learning.however the parents that do this often have had terrible parenting themselves - the cycle has to be broken through community outreach - parenting classes,social support etc but there just isn't enough at all.

Frankly, a little research and a bit of basic maths will tell you that this survey interviewed fewer than 4% of primary school teachers (3.8%), in actuality. Much of it is anecdotal and in truth, the survey size is not statistically valid. It is interesting to note that @Liveandletlive18 has not returned to make further comments after post this.

I’m probably my going to get flamed here - but I think a lot is to do with the lack of a family matriarchal structure (specifically grandmothers!!) being around.

I truly think humans are designed to live in closer extended family units - eg relatives like aunts/ grandmothers are supposed to be around and show young new mothers how it is done. Show them how to parent and help out.

im an educated, privileged professional but I have no family or friend support. I was utterly lost with how to be a mother. I didn’t have a clue what I was supposed to be doing, how to teach my child to potty train (yes I bought books but children don’t always follow what’s in the books!) and I’ve just muddled along but I’m not sure I’ve done the best job. I really could have used a guiding hand. everyone has mentioned sure start centres etc which I agree with, but that’s state provided, when really I think the very fabric of society now is the problem. We are the first generation really where this has started to fall apart, the silent generation largely where involved with family (if they were alive), its boomers who have been the first to have a “retirement” focused on leisure, and do to more millennials likely relocating due to university etc, families are spread out.

disclaimer - I know I’m going to get flamed. I know not everyone has family, or they help, or they don’t etc. I’m not talking about individuals. I’m talking about wider societal demographics changing beyond recognition compared to 50 years ago.

I think it's a combination of more children with SEN and also some children who are neglected with screens.

In the past an inadequately parented child would be out and about with other kids and/ or entertaining themselves in various ways. This is likely a much better set up than being on an ipad all day. I think people really kid themselves about this.

I see threads on here about screen time that are properly shocking and lots of people reassuring each other about how of course you have to put a toddler in from of a screen for a few hours a day or you couldn't get anything done. It's shitty parenting and we shouldn't pretend it isn't.

ETA - the OP is pretty misleading though obviously 25% of children do not start school in nappies!

I think we're in very similar boats, I'm also a professional woman who's read all the books but my family aren't nearby - they're loving and available over the phone but a once-a-week phone call isn't the same as just being around often and seeing things on the ground, helping me in the moment etc. I compare it a bit to juniors getting trained via zoom with one "training session" a day instead of just sitting next to someone who can quickly point out little things before they become problems!

10 isn’t 12. And if that’s the maximum most children aren’t doing it.
Again the hyperboles are annoying.

Not a single nursery near me opens past 6pm and that is London where most people commute.

Agree with this. It doesn't show the exact questions asked but I've read the Kindred survey report and it doesn't mention the word 'nappies' anywhere in it. It's all teacher and parent perceptions, so there doesn't seem to be any one agreed definition of 'toilet trained'.

I have DC2 currently in reception - he was toileting perfectly fine at home/nursery and has never worn nappies to school, but he had a toileting regression when he started school and quite a lot of accidents there in the first term. As a parent I would have answered the survey that he was toilet trained but the TA in his class might have disagreed with me a few months ago.

@OneAmberFinch absolutely. My mum didn’t have any local family, but she found a lovely old lady down the road (who was probably actually only in her 50s) who worked as my nanny (and was loved like family) but she paid her a pittance. Some days all she paid her was her bus fare and a sandwich! As we all know now, that would be impossible. Her other neighbour would lean over the fence and watch us in the garden if needed.

Labour laws / DBS checks, paying pension/ NI etc. Everyone is more insular. For those that have family they will never understand but the lack of help is exhausting. Mine do watch too much tv on a weekend because I’m shattered.

I know many local families (none travel far, we all live and work within London - max 30 mins) who do the full day. 5/6 families in my NCT class actually. But of course you think I’m lying bizarrely.

@nespresso we moved hundreds of miles away from our families when our first DC was weeks old. That was early 70s. I’ve no siblings, never had much to do with babies, but knew that children need to be spoken to, played with, bathed and fed. They needed to learn to use cutlery too, anyone remember the ‘spoon and pusher’ sets? I visited the local baby clinic, and that was as much input as I got. I muddled along too, and it all turned out ok I think.

We were poor, I’d no washing machine, but had to either hand wash or use the laundrette. As has been said earlier, terry nappies were a great impetus to toilet train!

This is not the reason I haven't returned. I'm on my lunchbreak & simply busy but I do enjoy mumsnet occasionally,sometimes more than others. FWIW this is a legitimate survey completed by kindred2 of 1000 Teachers & parents. It was also reported with a link in the Guardian newspaper. I'm not in the habit of making things up & none of the findings are my own or my own opinions.

Quote didn't happen. You will find my answer above. On further research the survey was completed by the research group Savanta on behalf of kindred2

Potentially, and due to the lack of shaming.

No matter what shite I see children being fed on those social media videos that say 'here's what my 4 year old ate today' I see 'a fed child is best' or 'good job momma'. No matter how trivial it is 'good job momma'. If someone criticises a child being in nappies at 5 there is a comment that says 'how ableist of you, children are different, some are ND, good job momma!'.

No one is criticised and it means that it slides for every child.

With the grandmothers, parents are more likely to cut ties with anyone they regard as 'toxic' or 'comments on their parenting'.

If there really are more NT kids starting Reception in nappies, I suspect that the "wait until your child is ready" mantra has a lot to do with delayed toilet training.

I was out of (terry-towelling) nappies by the age of 18 months, as were most of my peers, but by the time my DC were toddlers, the advice in parenting manuals seemed to suggest that waiting until at least 2, if not 2.5 years old before attempting any potty training if one wanted to avoid trauma and toileting issues in one's DC, and even then, only if your child was ready. My mum was horrified when I informed her of this! Anyway, one of mine did quickly and successfully potty train at 2.5 but the others were, by that age, strong-willed and determined toddlers who were quite certain that they did not want to give up their warm and comfortable Pampers for soggy pants and were extremely resistant to toilet training! I was seriously concerned that they would be starting school in nappies, despite my best efforts for many months. It was very stressful and I'm sure, with hindsight, they would have been more amenable to the idea if I'd started much earlier and not faffed around waiting for them to be "ready".

(They were out of nappies by the time they started school, but it felt like quite a close call)

For someone who has no experience of nurseries you seem to have done a lot of research into the ones in your area.the ones near me open from around 8-6. And for the smaller kids you can’t have them in any later than 5.

They say a lot of this is due to busy parents working

Teachers say this? Teachers who... have jobs? Are they planning on quitting if they have a child?

I don't think nursery is relevant - nursery helped potty train my DC, not actively but seeing bigger children go to the loo and wanting to copy etc. There's no tv, they sit on the floor listening to stories, they have a nice outside space they use daily, they sit up all together to eat meals after all lining up to wash their hands etc. It teaches a lot of things you'd need in reception.
I'm not saying you can't teach these things at home btw. I just find it odd to link using Americanisms and not being able to sit nicely on the carpet to nursery.

I think that's oversimplifying it. My daughter (4) has a tablet. She uses it to:

• Play phonics/reading/maths games
• Watch TV in small doses- she doesn't have YT access but uses Cbeebies/Netflix/Disney+
• Video call her Grandma
• Take selfies
• Listen to audiobooks and guided meditations and bedtime
• Read ebooks assigned to her to read at school

I think all of those things are a net positive, although she doesn't spend hours a day on it.

Having an unusual accent(including american) is a recognised trait of children with autistic spectrum disorder. It has nothing to do with watching too much T.V.

Anecdotally I have found the "wait till they are ready" with potty training seems to exclusively work for girls.

I have boys and both responded well to being trained but if I had waited till they showed readiness signs, they would have been at least 4

This was what finally convinced me I was probably autistic. I have always had a weird accent (people generally think I am west country but I have never lived there).

I agree with this. They are trying to tackle this in Scotland but going about it the wrong way by throwing money at the parents rather than using the money to open services to support them.

They are then relying on volunteers to try bridge the gaps and offer families support for free but there is a shortage of volunteers because most people have to work or having caring responsibilities if they don't work.

I tried to volunteer but gave up after the family's that the service allocated were not engaging or turning up at prearranged times. I am not giving up my limited free time to support those that don't even have the courtesy of letting me know not to meet them somewhere. They need paid services like sure start, increased social work, paid support services etc for this.

The whole thing is a mess. Money is being spent poorly on the wrong things and nothing is changing. In Scotland you only get free childcare from 2 if you don't work. Those that do work have to pay. I understand it's to bridge the attainment gap but it's not a fair system.

Absolutely ,am not going to elaborate but this is very much the case for many .People can be very judgemental in their perfect world.