To suggest that people should buy less stuff

[Noras]

i just think that the mess we are in is because we get stuff from overseas that we don’t really need. People buy a lot of tat and junk eg cheap clothing, rubbish confectionary and artificial tat for homes. If we all just cut down on huge chunks of it we could cut out our balance of payment deficit.

Also people need to buy less from overseas owned companies. People need to check each and every company they buy from and go for smaller independents etc There needs to be an online list of stores to avoid.

I'd love to see some governmental initiatives to encourage people to renovate and repair things rather than it being cheaper to dump and replace. For a start I'd reduce or zeroise VAT on repairs, i.e. car repairs, electrical appliance repairs, tradesmen when doing repairs (roof repairs, etc). Make it cheaper for people to repair things rather than dump and replace.

On eBay lots of Chinese based firms have a UK based subsidiary and a big UK flag as their logo. So little is made locally now and people have to work two jobs so don't have time to make things themselves.

Trumps tariffs are to improve balance of trade - so it's likely to be a thing going forward

@Catza and @CockSpadget if you have websites could you send me a link? Am about to start a big renovation - sadly necessary after 30 years here - and would love to buy British and sustainably.

I find it depressing that so many 'small businesses' seem to focus on making things people really don't need. Cookie-making, chocolate-making, luxury bathbombs, lotions and potions. And yet the basic businesses and services are rapidly disappearing. In the last year I've needed to get a key cut, I have been looking for a readybuilt wardrobe that's not too costly, and I have a hoover that needs repaired, and no local business in my quite large town can provide those sorts of things!

People are more willing to "overpay" for small/cheap tat types of things like bath bombs as even when over-priced, it's still basically cheap and pocket money, i.e. a fiver for a cup cake.

Completely different to big ticket items like electrical goods which would probably cost 3 or 4 times the price if made in the UK due to the costs of labour, utilities, etc.

Quite a lot of things are still made in the UK such as sofas and other heavy furniture simply because the higher labour costs are offset by the huge transport costs of moving heavy stuff around the World. It's the same reason we still produce a lot of tinned food and loo rolls in the UK - the costs of transporting shipping containers from China makes no sense for such mass produced items which are mostly done on automated production lines anyway, so outweighs the higher labour costs of a handful of people supervising a production line.

It really is for some people, or a way to relieve boredom. This sort of mindset is what helps to get people into debt, and contributes to their homes being full of things.

France does this. You get a state discount on repairing old things rather than buying new: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/actualites/A16951?lang=en and https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/actualites/A16858?lang=en = seems to be smaller amounts under 10 euros for having a pair of shoes or an item of clothing mended, up to 60 euros for a TV repair. There appears to be a network of approved menders where you can take your items for fixing.

They also intend to put a levy of 5 euros on every fast fashion item purchased to fund the rebates on repairs.

I think it's an absolutely inspired scheme and would definitely like to see similar here.

I have a feeling this has already been argued but just incase it hasn’t been, people can’t afford to buy enough of more expensive items that last right now because they don’t have that money available, so they buy cheaper items that they need to throw away and replace more often because that’s what they can afford to do right now

All of these things used to be the norm. Television, and radio repair shops were a thing. When did it start to change, and why?

The 80s, when mass manufacturing and mass consumerism properly took off

That is probably true. But if it's a choice between a really good quality second hand coat for £20, or a brand new one from Primark/Shein for £20, lots of people would prefer the poorer quality one brand new.

I don't think exhorting the general public is a healthy attitude. On an individual level there's really so little we can do, when the whole infrastructure is just not helping. When you see shops instead of public libraries and parks, when you see ads everywhere, when people talk about everchanging trends, when you watch TV or films and they're sending all these subliminal messages, when lots of popular books contain a lot of brand information, it just goes on and on. It takes not just money and leisure, but tremendous willpower and mental clarity, on an individual level, to first be aware of the problem, and to really source every single purchase locally and to resist buying.

Not to mention that the decisions and purchases of multimillionaires and billionaires can easily offset ours.

Yes of course being more aware which brands are local and of higher quality is never a bad thing--if it makes you happy about it, do it. But using our energy on our everyday purchasing decision is, I'm afraid, probably a waste. The real thing to do is to have some sort of a fundamental shift of mindset, on a societal level. I would say some changes include to boycott all social media (as it contributes to influencer culture) and big-budget films which promote bad values and increase the wealth of the wealthy. Cancel celebrity culture. Say no to subscription culture (which helps corporations). The list goes on and on and I do not know who has the power to influence other people so extensively. The forces are almost entirely against us.

I personally would rather buy second hand if it’s better but not everyone is like that.when you buy new you have certain consumer rights if something is wrong with the item but with second hand you don’t get that. that might be why

Today I'm wearing a jumper I bought as a poor student in 1984 - it's still going strong! 😀

My mum still has her dress from 1971 in near perfect condition (ok worn every few years, but still) 😭 and trainers nearly as old as I am (nearing 40!).

Fucking envious of that if I am honest. Today to buy that quality is near impossible or bankruptcy.

All the Temu crap that people buy 'because' they can. School teens with cards who can just buy crap because they have the means to - pocket money prices that Temu and Shein offer. Kids dont think about the damage it does. My older two buy stuff that gets chucked away in 2 weeks - clothes mainly. £2 tops and swimwear that gets chucked without even being washed. Awful.

Posted today, Sunday:
I also only allowed myself social media scrolling on Friday mornings as a ‘treat’.

MN IS Social Media. Reading & posting on MN is using SM.

Western economies would collapse if everyone reused as much & bought as little as me, I'm not sure that's a good thing. I also can't face checking where everything I buy came from. I bought pins from the haberdashery yesterday, for £1, I refuse to enquire where they came from. Similar with the spare reading glasses (I will buy soon from Poundland) or the steroidal cream I got yesterday (my exciting consumerism of the week).

I am thinking about some (probably cheap plastic because I can move them by myself) garden planters and also will not enquire where they came from, convenience & price & light-enough-can-move-by-myselfness will win.

I perceive that most people like novelty & get exited & happy over new stuff, it was ever thus.

Wow!!!

I’m wearing a 5-year-old sweatshirt under a 12-year-old fleece at the moment & I thought that was good, but 1971 is amazing.

I agree with you in principle OP but when people are this skint they are forced to buy the cheapest option. Blame Thatcher and her descendents for destroying the manufacturing base of this country.

Higher labour costs from the 70s onwards
Higher VAT
Ever increasing business costs, i.e. utilities, business rates, etc.
Basically a "perfect storm" brewing over the last 50 years or so.

The decline started long before Thatcher and can be traced back as far as the 1960s.

Exactly this.
It's hard to say that people have to buy things that last when they don't have the money to spend, say, £200 on a decent pair of shoes so they spend £20 instead.

And I think it needs to start somewhere else too. If celebrities and influencers got on board with this message it would have more chance of filtering down especially to younger people. But, of course, influencers are paid to endorse new products and fill people's instagram feed and tik tok with their pictures and videos showing off their new clothes/product/whatever and so it goes on.

Also so many people are involved in the process as we saw in Covid when major retailers fell to the wayside and thousands of jobs were lost. If we all stop consuming it would have a huge impact on people in ways that we may not want.
Unfortunately I don't think it's that simple because we have created a massive global spiders web around consumerism and it's hard to unpick that.

OH still has his work suits, shirts etc from M&S that he bought before we married nearly 30 years ago. More recent purchases last far less and have been binned.

Me and OH tend to buy things with a view to cannibalising.

I.e. we already had a fridge/freezer in the kitchen, but the freezer section was too small for us, and we thought about getting a stand along freezer for the garage as an overflow. Instead, we bought an identical fridge freezer. After around a decade or so, the kitchen one broke down, and we got a repair man to cannibalise the garage one by taking the working part needed from it to put on the kitchen one. By that time, we didn't really "need" both anymore, but kept the old one anyway. Then the kitchen one developed faulty door seals, so we took the ones off the old garage one and fitted them ourselves. Then one of the plastic salad boxes broke, so again, took one from the garage. We ended up keeping the kitchen one going for around 20 years!

I do the same with my computers for my business. I need four. Instead of having 4 different ones, I buy exactly the same make and model. After a few years, things go wrong, i.e. broken keyboards, broken laptop screens etc., so I just cannibalise to keep as many going as possible. Often also buying second hand or reconditioned identical ones to cannibalise. None of my current four computers are under a decade old! I'm just about to replace them all as they are now all "triggers brooms" and really showing their age, Of course, I'll be buying four identical ones!

It was one of my clients a few decades ago who told me of the idea. He ran a small fleet of freezer vans (he was a wholesale frozen food merchant). All identical. Not bought at the same time, but he bought roughly one new one every year, but identical as far as possible (vans didn't change much year by year in those days). When he bought a new one, he cascaded them down and kept the oldest for cannibalising whether light clusters, doors, etc - basically all the "consumables" from heavily used items! He had a "tame" motor mechanic firm who kept the oldest "scrap" vans in their yard to cannibalise as and when needed.

Even my father in law did the same. He had an old Saab and to keep it going, bought a couple of other identical saabs just for parts!

@taxguru that's fantastic.

There's an electrical repair shop regularly in the next village. Free too. Think they helped over 30 people last week?