Page 9 | To be concerned about what Liz Kendall is up to with disability benefits?

Locutus2000 · 2025-02-01T13:54:03+00:00

[[https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/long-term-sick-will-need-to-look-for-jobs-in-benefits-overhaul-kzxr3hjpw The Times reporting]] just how enthusiastic Labour are about targeting the disabled. I can only hope they are getting the worst ideas out there first, if not I dread to think what is coming in the upcoming review. I was confident Labour would at worst be no worse than the Tories. I was wrong. [[https://archive.ph/gxYFz Free archive link here]].

PandoraSox · 01/02/2025 17:48

SummerFeverVenice · 01/02/2025 17:42

They can reassess you whenever they want but no later than 1yr prior to the end date of the award. It’s in all the applications.

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Yep. My DH has a rare motor neurone disease which is obviously never going to get better. He will still be reassessed in about 7 years. There are no indefinite awards, unlike with DLA.

Tittat50 · 01/02/2025 17:50

Whoever's mentioned interviews in mental health wards. Erm, show me the mental health wards and where they are? There aren't any.

During my multiple hospital visits I've seen so many poor people discharged the next day after their failed suicide attempts.

LittlePotOfCress · 01/02/2025 17:51

JoyousGreyOrca · 01/02/2025 15:44

The number of people on sickness and disability benefits has soared. It was never sustainable

until it happens to you. Or someone you care about. Or your child.

I support fixing what causes it.
Attributing all mental health and disability to being 'workshy' is showing an uneducated tabloid-fed bias.
Read better.

KurtCobainLover · 01/02/2025 17:51

I’m really scared by this. I get PIP and LCWRA for anxiety and bipolar. I work 15 hours a week in a really flexible role and have a great manager who lets me work from home whenever I want and take time off if I’m having a really down day and can’t cope with work. I’m terrified I’m going to be told to look for full time work which I know I won’t manage and I doubt I’ll find somewhere as flexible as I where I am now.

Livelovebehappy · 01/02/2025 17:51

PandoraSox · 01/02/2025 17:27

Which people are these?

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MN ‘people’. A lot on here were buzzing that the allowance was halted. MN posters were overwhelmingly in favour of it being withdrawn. And now we have a race to the bottom situation. Absolutely no-one is safe under Labour. There’s only so much they can squeeze from the wealthy, so obviously other targets will follow.

ACynicalDad · 01/02/2025 17:52

Delighted if they get a grip on this. Way too many people are signed off.

TigerRag · 01/02/2025 17:53

EasternStandard · 01/02/2025 17:39

No one receives disability benefits indefinitely

@TigerRag can you say more on this, do you mean no one who needs it long term gets it? What do people do if their condition doesn't go away?

My source: I'm long term disabled. Been on ESA since 2012, reassessed in 2023. Been on DLA since 2008, reassessed when it went to pip in 2016 and I'll be reassessed again next year

If our conditions don't go away we're still reassessed. I found my ESA assessment pointless. Since 2012, I've only had conditions added. I've not improved at all

Enya321 · 01/02/2025 17:53

Morph22010 · 01/02/2025 17:32

I think they’ll do something with children’s dla. It’s now something like one in sixteen children who are on dla and most will go onto pip at 16 as well as all the adults that become disabled in adulthood. My son is autistic and I get dla for him about £100 a week. In all honesty his disability doesn’t cost me anywhere near this over and above what a typical child would cost, as where it would cost more like having to accompany him as a carer most places do free carer tickets. However I claim dla as it’s the thing that’s most often requested as proof of disability so some of things we attend like Sen sessions we wouldn’t be able to go to if he was not in receipt of dla. Obviously it is massively difficult having an autistic child and I’m not saying it’s easy but I don’t have things that cost me extra money really. I know that’s not the case for all children as some needs expensive equipment but there will be a lot in receipt of dla where there aren’t that level of extra costs. Ds is disabled enough to have an echp and be in special school so he’s not a mild case. We are having a tough time at the minute and I’m trying to get some support from the la but to access the support you need to be on higher rate care or higher rate mobility so now I’m going to have to go back to the dwp to try and get his dla reconsidered and changed to higher rate care

I just want to help you out a bit here.
autistic children have sensory difficulties so they need different clothes that can be harder to find or more expensive they may also wear out their clothes faster or need to use the washing machine a lot more
they might struggle with public transport and need to run a car.
you go out with him but if he didn’t have you someone would have to pay for a carer to do all of his household chores or accompany him out or do things for him like phone calls and admin, or someone to speak on his behalf and pay his bills or manage his money.
It’s also unlikely that he can sustain employment himself or socialise with his peers and may not be able to go to free groups and need to buy things for him to do or home educate.
use the money to improve his life if you have it spare like for hobbies or a pet if he can’t make or sustain friends.

EasternStandard · 01/02/2025 17:53

MN ‘people’. A lot on here were buzzing that the allowance was halted. MN posters were overwhelmingly in favour of it being withdrawn. And now we have a race to the bottom situation. Absolutely no-one is safe under Labour. There’s only so much they can squeeze from the wealthy, so obviously other targets will follow.

Yes this. Add in going for the private sector and reduced spending as that contracts and a large majority. It'll be easy to go for which ever group next.

username299 · 01/02/2025 17:54

Marshbird · 01/02/2025 17:46

Well they won’t get far if that’s true. Nearly Everyone on mental health wards are sectioned under mental health act these days. Can’t get a bloody bed for anyone who’s not sectioned!
Therefore I think this is just a bit of cobblers and not true and click bait

At best, they may be trying to work with secondary mental health teams. They look after folks discharged or not ever sectioned but with severe and enduring mental illness. Funding has been massively slashed over last 15-20years to support the care in the community model (drug and dump is currently a better description). So if they’re going to put in advisors or occ therapist to help those under secondary mental health team a chance to get back into work then that’s a bloody good thing. And an enormous challenge . Those under secondary mental health teams will have huge challenges, including variations in symptoms over time , crisis, and even just compliance with meds and treatment. But I know form personal experience that someone working with my exh who had paranoid schizophrenia to try to get him into some work, any work, would have been massively beneficial .

but I suspect the sheer cost of this, and the challenge is also not what government are going after. It never has been. Too bloody hard

i suspect what they’re targeting is to identify those with mental health issues being treated by primary care (GP and referrals to therepy and counselling). It is these numbers have massively grown since Covid. The reason are complex, and it’s not an easy task. But many, many people find that their mental health does improve once back at work where it is not a diagnosis of severe and enduring illness. It provides structure, purpose, builds self esteem etc. yes, I’d like them to be doing the work to understand the various groups of causes of the rise in mental health issues, and address those head on, but agian probably way too much work and too much cost.

but please do stop scare mongering vulnerable people with idea that folks are going to be interviewed in mental health wards. Have you ever been on one? They are noisy, scary and chaotic environments. And sometimes violent as patients can, in their distress, be aggressive. Have you ever experienced a love one admitted to mental ward under sectioning? This happens when they’re deemed a danger to themselves and others - you’re not going to shove a civil servant into that mix. 🤦‍♀️Have you ever tried getting someone admitted to a ward where there are no beds in the whole authority and people are arguging that the perosnal is not a danger to themselves and others? No one can rock up in mental wards. You need to be relatives and recognised care giver. And even then in some cases even nearest realtives aren’t always allowed to visit for short periods.

or to put it more succinctly you’re talking twaddle. Sorry.

Show quote history

I check my facts before telling people they're talking twaddle. It's recommended.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98y09n8201o

A medium close up of Pensions Secretary Liz Kendall wearing a blue jacket and white top with tree and bushes in background

Mental health patients could get job coach visits, says minister

Pensions Secretary Liz Kendall says trials of the idea have produced "dramatic results".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c98y09n8201o

LittlePotOfCress · 01/02/2025 17:54

Livelovebehappy · 01/02/2025 17:18

Really? Go on any of the big job sites - for example Indeed, and there’s lists of jobs. Problem is, people measure the salary by what they get on benefits, and aren’t prepared to work unless they are going to be significantly better off.

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I fucking hope there's lots of jobs! I am coming off self employment soon and hoping to find some employed work. Wish me luck!

PAYE · 01/02/2025 17:55

It is a tricky situation. Those with severe disabilities need support.

But I have been shocked at how generous the system is and the lack of scrutiny of applications. To give two direct examples.

My dad gets attendance allowance - very nice to have but I was shocked that its not means tested and there is no need to spend it on anything in particular. Dad has more money than he will ever spend. He just adds it to his savings.

My son has ASD/ADHD and a friend told us we would qualify for DLA. I was shocked at how much DLA we got awarded just for filling in a form with no follow-up checks. He actually costs us less than our other kids. We have stopped claiming as (i) as a family we don't need the extra and (ii) he wants to be treated like every other teenager/does not consider himself disabled. But it was weird to me that the system was so generous and had no scrutiny on either eligibility or what it was spent on.

It would make massively more sense to slash cash payments to families and instead invest in Sure Start which was proven to change lives.

EasternStandard · 01/02/2025 17:55

@TigerRag I thought you meant no one had the benefit long term. I get people are reassessed but clearly if the condition doesn't change or gets worse people can receive it long term / indefinitely - with assessment at various points

EarlyM0rnibg · 01/02/2025 17:56

Marshbird · 01/02/2025 17:46

Well they won’t get far if that’s true. Nearly Everyone on mental health wards are sectioned under mental health act these days. Can’t get a bloody bed for anyone who’s not sectioned!
Therefore I think this is just a bit of cobblers and not true and click bait

At best, they may be trying to work with secondary mental health teams. They look after folks discharged or not ever sectioned but with severe and enduring mental illness. Funding has been massively slashed over last 15-20years to support the care in the community model (drug and dump is currently a better description). So if they’re going to put in advisors or occ therapist to help those under secondary mental health team a chance to get back into work then that’s a bloody good thing. And an enormous challenge . Those under secondary mental health teams will have huge challenges, including variations in symptoms over time , crisis, and even just compliance with meds and treatment. But I know form personal experience that someone working with my exh who had paranoid schizophrenia to try to get him into some work, any work, would have been massively beneficial .

but I suspect the sheer cost of this, and the challenge is also not what government are going after. It never has been. Too bloody hard

i suspect what they’re targeting is to identify those with mental health issues being treated by primary care (GP and referrals to therepy and counselling). It is these numbers have massively grown since Covid. The reason are complex, and it’s not an easy task. But many, many people find that their mental health does improve once back at work where it is not a diagnosis of severe and enduring illness. It provides structure, purpose, builds self esteem etc. yes, I’d like them to be doing the work to understand the various groups of causes of the rise in mental health issues, and address those head on, but agian probably way too much work and too much cost.

but please do stop scare mongering vulnerable people with idea that folks are going to be interviewed in mental health wards. Have you ever been on one? They are noisy, scary and chaotic environments. And sometimes violent as patients can, in their distress, be aggressive. Have you ever experienced a love one admitted to mental ward under sectioning? This happens when they’re deemed a danger to themselves and others - you’re not going to shove a civil servant into that mix. 🤦‍♀️Have you ever tried getting someone admitted to a ward where there are no beds in the whole authority and people are arguging that the perosnal is not a danger to themselves and others? No one can rock up in mental wards. You need to be relatives and recognised care giver. And even then in some cases even nearest realtives aren’t always allowed to visit for short periods.

or to put it more succinctly you’re talking twaddle. Sorry.

Show quote history

Good post. Indeed complete twaddle. Will be disappointing if those in the middle of being inbetween inpatient and GP get no help. It would cost £££££ so I expect they won’t and my dd will continue to be stuck and unable to work. She has moved from tier 4 and specialist team to community mental health, has a support worker and is due to be assessed for therapy by community mental health. She needs something bespoke to her and from somebody well trained not CBT ( that won’t help)by somebody who has done a counselling course. If she doesn’t get it she can’t access the level 3 course she wants to do to get into higher education and then work. Her entire education and mental health has been wrecked by the education system, inadequate SEND, waiting lists, late diagnosis and the wrong provision from CAMHS. Being forced into the wrong work at the wrong time will send her back into crisis and tier 4 which will cost more.

Boomer55 · 01/02/2025 17:56

They want to get mental health/depressive/young people claimants and bad back claimants off of benefits.

They have made that clear. 🤷‍♀️

Cesarina · 01/02/2025 17:57

CarnivorousHipPain · 01/02/2025 14:55

There's definitely a thick atmosphere at the moment of people who believe the disabled just aren't trying hard enough.

It seems to be aimed particularly at mental health difficulties but I've had it aimed at me as a physically disabled person.

I loved my career. It's been devastating losing it - now I'm being called lazy to boot.

The NHS has been in a shambles for years. I'm certainly a lot more ill than I need to be, and have been so since my diagnosis. Of course we've got more sick people than ever. Isn't that an obvious consequence? I can only blame the Tories for that.

@CarnivorousHipPain Well done for pointing out the fact, rarely referred to, that many unwell/disabled people would love to work but can't, for lots of different reasons.
Reasons such as physically inaccessible/unaccommodating workplaces, employers' prejudices/preconceptions, etc.
Stories such as yours, where you had a career but became unable to continue due to your physical disability, are seldom made known.
It's just so easy politically for the public to be led to believe that all people on sickness/disability benefits are gaming the system.
I sincerely hope I don't sound patronising by saying I'm sorry for what's happened to you.

Snowy7 · 01/02/2025 17:59

I wonder who are all these employers that will take staff on with disabilities who need a lot of flexibility and adjustments. Same for carers. I need a new job and nobody wants to employ me as I need all school hols off, can only work 2h per day if I factor in commute (child on part time time table due to lack of SEN school places) and 2-3 appointments per week during school hours. I currently have a very flexible employer but being made redundant and absolutely no soul wants me despite having a lot to offer in skills.

Tittat50 · 01/02/2025 18:01

@PAYE that's so bad. I actually didn't realise that about those benefits.

I'm clearly missing a bloody trick myself! Although, I'm not because I am like many people decent in that I have minimal material outgoings because I can't do much. I'm happy I can pay basics and have a home so won't go for every possible benefit.

I agree that they really need to means test some benefits.

Livelovebehappy · 01/02/2025 18:02

LittlePotOfCress · 01/02/2025 17:54

I fucking hope there's lots of jobs! I am coming off self employment soon and hoping to find some employed work. Wish me luck!

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There are LittlePotOfCress. And I’m sure if you’re determined enough, you will be absolutely fine.

EarlyM0rnibg · 01/02/2025 18:02

Boomer55 · 01/02/2025 17:56

They want to get mental health/depressive/young people claimants and bad back claimants off of benefits.

They have made that clear. 🤷‍♀️

Great I look with excitement to the treatment my daughter needs then. I assume the waiting lists and gate keeping will end then and the support and treatment that is needed will appear.

TigerRag · 01/02/2025 18:04

Tittat50 · 01/02/2025 18:01

@PAYE that's so bad. I actually didn't realise that about those benefits.

I'm clearly missing a bloody trick myself! Although, I'm not because I am like many people decent in that I have minimal material outgoings because I can't do much. I'm happy I can pay basics and have a home so won't go for every possible benefit.

I agree that they really need to means test some benefits.

Means testing will cost far too much money. And where do you draw the line?

sparkellie · 01/02/2025 18:06

Simplynotsimple · 01/02/2025 16:34

One of the key reasons I didn’t vote for Labour was because it was blatant to me that they were coming for disabled people and benefits. I have a child who will never be ‘economically viable’, he will always need adult lead support. At the moment that’s me, and that means I also take from the benefits system. There is no clear support for either his future in terms of this support, and there’s zero pathway for us parent/carers to get back into the workplace. Even if he does get a care package or supported living past 18 I will have both received thousands in UC and have years of an empty CV.

And people will say ‘well obviously they don’t intend to come for your situation’, but we already have to explain ourselves to the nth degree. Those with disabilities have to humiliate themselves and show ultimate gratitude, beg for support in workplaces rather than investing in recognising every possible need to make workplaces accessible to all. The onus is always on those with disabilities to fight every angle only for the government to say ‘well we’re still looking at taking away the little we do give you’. To question disability benefits is an attack on disabled people and their families.

This.
My son has high support needs. His working memory (how the brain retrieves stored information) is incredibly poor. He cannot reliably retain information which will make him very difficult to employ. I have been lucky enough to be able to work part time as he has been able to attend a mainstream school (though with little to no hope of passing any gcses). Unfortunately his school only goes up to 16, which means I am desperately trying to find him a suitable placement for September, but even if I do, the chances are I will have to give up work, as he won't be able to travel independently or manage his break times unsupervised safely.
When applying for his pip, despite his predicted grades being 1s, and a reading age of 8, I was told there was no evidence of learning disability or comprehension difficulties! I constantly have to prove he is disabled enough. His life is so dependent on others and I cannot begin to describe how terrified I am of what will happen to him when I can't care for him or am no longer here.

Tittat50 · 01/02/2025 18:06

TigerRag · 01/02/2025 18:04

Means testing will cost far too much money. And where do you draw the line?

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I'm naive to the costs associated with means testing to be honest.

ChishiyaBat · 01/02/2025 18:06

I hope to the goddesses that my granddaughter who was born with cerebral palsy is well enough to work when she is an adult because at this rate they will be no help for her at all. Seems like there are a lot of people who would delight in that too.

Octavia64 · 01/02/2025 18:06

EasternStandard · 01/02/2025 17:43

@SummerFeverVenice some people must receive them long term if their condition doesn't change or worsens?

Yes.

But everyone is reviewed. There used to be lifetime awards. Now you get a review date and they review you then.

Some people will be on disability benefits all their life because they are severely disabled and the reviews will see this because it is obvious.

Others will drop off as their condition changes. That's the point of the review system.