To be concerned about what Liz Kendall is up to with disability benefits?

[Locutus2000]

The Times reporting just how enthusiastic Labour are about targeting the disabled.

I can only hope they are getting the worst ideas out there first, if not I dread to think what is coming in the upcoming review.

I was confident Labour would at worst be no worse than the Tories.

I was wrong.

Free archive link here.

the country spends £65bn a year on sickness benefits. That’s not the total welfare bill - it doesn’t include pensions and doesn’t include unemployment. That’s just paying people who are too sick to work. That’s completely unsustainable.

This.

A huge number of the people not in work have things like mental health conditions, depression particularly, which are actually proven to be improved by being in work. There can be a vicious cycle where unemployment contributes to depression and anxiety and leads to continuing unemployment. Psychiatric disorders are by far the largest proportion of all pip claims by disabling condition, being almost 40% of claims, within which are a huge volume of mixed anxiety and depression claims.

There really is a lot of evidence that work can help depression.

I just watched a video about Margaret Thatcher and how cutting the welfare bill created a domino effect and even more unemployment and poverty rather than encouraging people to work, because they were too ill to do so. So I expect this will make things worse for everyone.
it might be ok if people were encouraged to improve their circumstances and make better choices rather than be enabled, as in some cases mental health issues are enabled and bad choices made which keeps them in it. But not by removing the money they need to live on

Pp have alluded to covid, but let’s not forget Brexit and the massive job losses that have occurred because of it.

A lot of the posters on here won’t be old enough to remember what life is like under a Labour government. It wasn’t exactly great last time and my parents have told me how awful things were in the 70s.

massive job losses that have occurred because of it

Unemployment isn't high? Or it hasn't been in the last few years. It may well go up, with a contracting private sector.

im always perplexed though as to why people don’t prioritise to find out about something that will affect every aspect of their lives ahead of making a decision about it.

I think it’s indicative about how people are happy to spend their time. People spend hours doom scrolling, drinking in pubs, watching reality TV, shopping for stuff they don’t need. If only people spent 10-30 minutes every day reading about stuff that matters. If only people had conversations about important stuff, rather than who is dating whom.

This is what really worries me about AI. People are going to get their information off an easily manipulated source in order to save time. Critical thinking is going to become extinct.

Really? Go on any of the big job sites - for example Indeed, and there’s lists of jobs. Problem is, people measure the salary by what they get on benefits, and aren’t prepared to work unless they are going to be significantly better off.

I think one thing the government could do is make work pay. So many people doing low paid work (usually essential work for society to function) are living in real grinding poverty. I would have an absolutely massive council house building programme and, controversially, prioritise working people, people have to see some benefits for their labour. Housing costs for private rent just suck up so much now that there's nothing left. So people work all day, have nothing to so for it, then get blamed for being poor and looked down upon for the job they do. This would fill me with depression and anxiety as well.

This is absolutely true. Those in full time work should be able to live a reasonable life on their wages. We have a real problem in this country that there are too many jobs that don't pay enough and decades of underprovision of housing has inflated rents too much. That "value" tied up in house prices does not flow around the economy creating jobs, it primarily just makes the wealthiest property owners even richer on paper.

Now you really are stretching!

lol housing associations cant or dont want to work around working tenants

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4741212-to-think-housing-associations-are-going-to-have-to-start-doing-checks-outside-office-hours

It makes no difference whose in Government because the UK is hugely financially damaged by the Covid years, the Labour party might want to be kinder but they don't have the budget. A few people on here were very happy they'd taken away the pensioner's winter fuel allowance, they didn't take onboard that they'd be next

Every disability benefit is reassessed regularly depending on the condition. Depression isn’t going to get you a 10yr award with light touch review like someone with MND.

@PandoraSox

That's not the point. The system is set up ion the basis that those who have a disability can claim a financial benefit.

But you’re suggesting then that people might be better off on benefits than working? Or they would be working rather than claiming, so choice of getting a good wage wouldn’t come into it. We’re always being told on MN that benefits are far lower than working.

They should start focusing on wealth tax, but no, can't do that. Instead, let's put pressure on vulnerable people. The whole system is so f....ed up.

@Locutus2000 The correct way to reduce the number of people claiming benefits for being sick long term is to ensure those people are able to receive the care they need. If more people are able to manage their illnesses, then they may be able to return to work.

Whenever I've suggested this before, some snotty ignoramus always shows up to inform me that it's up to people to look after their own health, rather than the government. Amazingly, some people are completely oblivious to the fact that millions of people are affected by various medical conditions that are not self-inflicted.

If we want to improve the health and well-being at the public, why not start with the obvious? Air quality is shit and hundreds of thousands of deaths are attributable to air pollution. So why not target people idling their car engines and discourage people from burning fires in their homes? Food quality is also shit. So why not tax healthy food to bring down the cost of healthy food, provide free cooking lessons nationwide, or start a government-owned chain of eateries which only provide healthy food at low prices?

Going back to the Channel 4 programme I linked upthread.
There was a man featured who was awarded long term 'light touch'. He was an alcoholic who had gone on to develop anxiety. I don't think he had ever worked.

It may be because she can only work part time, so the PIP tops up her salary.
I know that's true in my case. I put off claiming PIP for many years, feeling 'I wasn't bad enough'. So I pushed myself to work almost full time and by the weekend I was in so much pain and so tired I couldn't move, which meant I couldn't have quality time with my children and was getting worse and worse. Claiming PIP has enabled me to drop to 3 days a week. I work Monday and Tuesday, have a rest to recover on Wednesday, work Thursday and rest Friday. I am a very skilled and experienced health professional and being able to continue working had enabled me to support those newer to the profession and build skills, consult on complex cases as well as carry a complex caseload. Without PIP I probably wouod have burnt out by now and been ill health retired by the nhs, costing the country much much more as well as loss of skills to the nhs.

Anyone who was paying attention knew that Labour would reform disability benefits. Kendall spoke abput it before the GE, so it is no surprise. It was also mentioned in the manifesto. Labour also said it would publish its own green paper.

It is why I paused before putting my x in the box.

A few people on here were very happy they'd taken away the pensioner's winter fuel allowance, they didn't take onboard that they'd be next

Yep

How much of that £65billion is made up of taking people to tribunal and constantly assessing those who will never get better?

70% who go to tribunal win. This really needs to be looked at. And the companies who get it wrong should be fined. Maybe then they'd start telling the truth.

@Feelingathomenow you are so right though. I don't scroll on SM all day. I spend a lot of time in here and have learnt alot from here.

You think about people's lives now and how they access media, like you point out, it's easy for so many to be swayed by stories.

Which people are these?

no, the article is behind a paywall for me as well

the presenter picked those two specific people because they are very rare unusual and dare I say it unbelievable cases and then he heavily edited things to make it look like the average.

The woman with the shattered pelvis- yes she gets more than the minimum wage but so would any single working mum after her wages were topped up by UC. Yes she probably gets a bit more than that because her disability causes extra costs of living that an abled mum would not have. This extra money levels the playing field between an abled single mum and a disabled single mum.

The cab driver waiting for reassessment to continue working was nonsense. You can call DWP, sit on hold for 90mins and cancel your claim, end it over the phone there and then. The cabbie was either seriously mentally ill with delusions, or a paid actor.