AIBU to be a bit sad that kids still grow up with such rigid gender stereotypes?

[Greywarden]

This is something that has struck me lately. I'm interested to know what people think.

I'm a first-time mum to a DD who is about 18 months old. She still has fairly short hair - thick but not long enough to put in even a mini pigtail. Whilst she has some dresses and overtly pink / glittery things, she also has a lot of leggings / trousers and tops in blues and greens - most of them donated to me by a friend with an older DS. Unsurprisingly, when she wears these, a combination of the hair and the clothes leads people to often mistake DD for a little boy. This doesn't upset or offend me - whilst I think it's a bit of a shame that people assume / stereotype so easily, I know everyone makes snap judgements based on the information they have available and don't mean any harm by it. If it bothered me, I suppose I could stick a pink bow in DD's hair or something, but it doesn't.

The other week I was with my DD at soft play and this little girl - I reckon about 4 - started following us around and referring to DD as 'him' and saying 'why does that boy have a pink top?' and laughing. As ever, I wasn't offended at all but just gently corrected. This girl laughed and said 'no, he's a boy!' She kept going on about it - how 'he' must be a boy, and then she even went and told her mum that there was a boy dressed as a girl. That slightly annoyed me for some reason, although I told myself I was being stupid.

Today I was with my DD at a toddler dance class. A little boy of maybe 6 who was there with his mum and younger sister, just sort of hanging out, asked his mum why a boy was dancing. I heard his mum explain that he was actually talking about a little girl. This boy protested and said 'it's a boy' again and again and kept laughing and going on about it. He had also, of course, assumed that dance is only for girls.

Now I think about it, I can think of loads of other examples where kids I know of all ages - various friends' kids and relatives - have casually expressed really stereotypical stuff about boys and girls should be or should do.

I know these are kids who mean no harm and I would never be irritable or harsh with a kid making this sort of innocent mistake. It's just what they've learned from the world around them. I do find it interesting though, and a bit sad, that young kids today still seem to be growing up with such strong stereotypes about what a boy or a girl looks like or what activities they should do. There was plenty of this when I was a kid in the 90s - my DM made me cut my hair short when I was about 9 (not unreasonably as it was a tangled mess that I refused to look after) and in combination with my leg hair coming in early, I was mercilessly bullied for being a 'boy-girl' and 'lady boy'. But I do at least remember there being some degree of social acceptance of tomboys at school, at least if they were sporty. I also assumed from more make-up wearing, highly groomed men in popular culture that kids would be more relaxed about policing gender boundaries than they used to be, but it seems I was wrong.

YABU - it's ridiculous to be sad about this / there's no problem with traditional gender roles for kids

YANBU - it's a bit of a shame that these things are still so rigid in the minds of lots of kids

It definitely has got worse, but sexism and gender entrenchment has always been a thing.

Agreed.

Ah I thought you meant as an adult!

But again it was common - I was a child in the 80’s and had a hideous pudding bowl hair cut with a little square of hair as the nape of my neck. Everyone did!

Yes @BunfightBetty what the hell is going on with children's clothes? I didn't notice for a while because was lucky enough to get loads of second-hand stuff from friends and family for my DD whilst she was a baby. Recently I've started to do a bit more shopping for her and I can't believe how segregated clothes are by sex EVERYWHERE. Also a lot of it is so impractical - of course it's fine for any kid to wear dresses if they like them but when kids are at an age where they are mostly clambering about, some of these 'girl' clothes just seem hilariously impractical.

I think it's worse now than it was years ago . I grew up in the 1970s and girls and boys dressed in the same clothes and had pretty much the same haircuts.

Things were more rigid at school (eg what sports you did and cooking vs woodwork) but outside of school children would all play sports together and ride out on their bikes.

I always used to think boys should wear tights, they were much more practical than the lost socks in the soft play!

My kids are older teens though and gendered clothing has definitely been a thing since they were your daughter's age.

My daughter is autistic and she had a preference for clothes from the boys selection for years, post puberty she's now wearing clothes that other teen girls will wear.

She didn't care that people said they were boys clothes, the answer she learnt was 'they are not boys clothes they are my clothes'.

I wasn't too impressed when CAMHS tried to 'explore gender' with her though. There is nothing wrong with gender non conforming girls!

I am not saying you are lying, I am just surprised. Apologies for not knowing how old you were.

@Greywarden wait till you see the girls shorts in the summer.

Next and TU do lovely knee length jersey 'boy' shorts though that are great in sensible colours for running around the park. Opposed to the girls short shorts, in white, lemon and baby pink.

I thought it was what's taught but I'm not so sure now. My youngest Ds has very long hair and is often referred to as a girl. Yet if he sees a boy/man with long hair he usually assumes them to be female and we correct him. We just assume I suppose.

Children should never be taught gender stereotypes. If a boy is interested in ballet then he should be able to take classes. If a girl want to be a builder crack on. You follow their interests.

Lets celebrate a good toy company www.bigjigstoys.co.uk/blogs/posts/toys-for-girls-that-break-stereotypes?srsltid=AfmBOoqzDIwb3l8Cxhd198M4yrbp0FbBTkKA5lFymqPcWj2Xi4iq8d9B

I think society created gender stereotypes/norms is a big cause of a number of people not feeling like they are the sex they were born.

I don’t agree at all. If anything it’s anti trans people who believe women should be women and men should be men.

I was born in the early 60s, I had mostly short hair up u til I was about 7, but AFAIR no one thought I was a girl.

Believing a woman is still a woman if she wears trousers, has short hair and is an engineer is very different from believing a woman should be feminine and only do ‘womany things’.

People who think sex matters believe the former NOT the latter…

Kimberley this is interesting.

So do you literally believe that some women are men and that non gender conforming humans ARE the opposite sex if they say they are?

I know a few teenage girls who are saying they are trans men and are going on to have double mastectomies to try to. make their bodies as masculine as possible as a result. I don't think that this is a positive. They're trying to escape gender roles.

This wasn't a thing when we were growing up, but gender non conformity was , think Annie Lennox? I wasn't gender conforming at all and may well have thought I was a trans man if I was a teenager now. I never thought I'd get married and have kids, yet I did and I'm glad I didn't have a mastectomy because I breastfed my children.

I think that a woman can be whatever she wants to be, do any job, wear anything she wants, wear her hair short, play any sport, have any hobby but I don't ever think she can actually be a man because that's just not possible.

The separate toy aisles and pink sparkly Disney shit started long before “trans” became a thing.

When I was a kid in the 70s Lego was in primary colours and both sexes played with it, clothes were also in colours which could be worn by either sex, and kids jeans were just jeans, again for either sex, same for coats and trainers. Books and comics were mostly aimed at either sex too.

I would say it really started to change around late 80s early 90s.

We found out we were having a girl yesterday. One of my husbands first comments was "are we going to have our weekends taken up taking her to dance class"...i said how the hell will we know if she has any interest in dance when shes a 17 week old fetus 🤔

Have a read of Kohlbergs theory of gender development, it's really interesting. It's only at age 6-7 that children develop gender constancy and can identify gender even if they are not engaging in stereotypical behaviour for their gender e.g. a man in a dress is still a man. At age 4 children believe if you are doing something outside of your gendered role your gender will change, hence why the little girl was saying your baby was a boy, because she's allocated short hair into a "boy" category in her brain based on her own experiences of the world around her.

I have a 21 month old and I do agree with you about some baby/toddler clothing, my little girl loves thomas the tank engine and my mum despairs that I dress her in "boy clothes" because everything thomas related is blue.

I actually think stereotypes have got much worse in recent years.
When I was a child there really wasn't the big pink and blue thing. Most of us girls had short hair.
As a teenager in the 70s it was all androgyny, lots of men with long hair and flowery clothes. I aimed for the Annie Lennox look.

When my DC were young in the 90s I bent over backwards to avoid stereotypes in clothes, toys etc. With some success up to about age 6 or 7. It did feel different, there were zero girls with short hair. DS1 had long blonde hair and really did look like a girl. He was mistaken for a girl quite a lot and it never bothered him until he was about 6.
It's very rare now to see children or young women with short hair as if they have to conform to the idea of looking girly.

OP I would ignore it unless it bothers DD and if it does I would change her look because children struggle if they stand out and I wouldn't make life harder than necessary.

I was on Mumsnet during the Let Toys be Toys campaign (and the related books and clothes campaigns). Ot seems that progress has been lost.

Stereotypes are one thing, there will always be predominant aspects to a group, but people should be free to be different to the majority behaviour.

I don't know how we have jumped from "most girls have long hair" (a measurable fact) to "only girls can have long hair" or "girls must have long hair "or "if you don't have long hair you can't be a girl" which are totally different, and stupid.

Having said that you can't expect toddlers to get such nuances when they are just learning about the world, but parents should be teaching them there is variation and diversity.

Not quite, I was talking about stereotypes in terms of how people present themselves. It does seem to me that while it’s seen as fine for little boys to wear their hair long, little girls with short hair are regarded as something of an abomination and being mistaken for a boy is the worst thing possible.

I don't think it's anything to be sad over. People generally form their opinions on the majority around them - if most boys have short hair and wear certain clothes, young kids will think all boys do. Some people have always disapproved of tom boys but, I think you're right that the phrase was more common when I was growing up (it wasn't necessarily said as a compliment). There seems to be less acceptance now of those who don't fit the generic mould.

That being said, DS's hair was always long as a baby, and he had beautiful long eyelashes. It was odd when someone actually (correctly) assumed he was a boy. Most people - kids and adults - would refer to him as 'she'. It didn't offend me. But to be fair, none were rude like the kids you encountered - I wouldn't be as forgiving on that count if I were you. They were old enough to know that you don't laugh at people or make personal remarks about them and their parents should have told them off.

I avoid stereotypes and yes, gendered clothing can be a bit much. But I think you've been quite unlucky to receive/witness this type of laughing/comment multiple times. My dd didn't grow hair until 18-24 months, and I can't imagine a kid bring confused about her wearing a pink top. Most kids that age have short hair.

My son, aged five and clearly looking like a boy, wore the paw patrol skye costume for Halloween (a shiny pink sparkly dress). As that's his favorite character. Only one kid made a comment and that's out of 200 or more kids we passed that night. No one else looked twice.

My daughter has often been mistaken for a boy because she's autistic and non gender conforming.

The worst thing possible was not being asked by peers if she is a boy, it was CAMHS suggesting that she might actually be a boy or non binary and the number of autistic girls like my daughter in our area who now do identify as boys or being non binary is shocking.