To belief that some people are just bad and can’t be ‘fixed?’

Everybodywantstoruletheworld2025 · 31/01/2025 22:23

Depends on an individuals definition and perspective. We don’t all live in a bubble of niceness, fairness and justice.

ChellyT · 31/01/2025 22:24

I agree when 1 in 6 men over 18 are sexually attracted to children, when 1 in 5 women have been sexually assaulted (these are Australian stats) Pedophilia and violent crimes against men, women and children make it hard to believe that rehab is possible

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 31/01/2025 22:25

1 in 6?! Where on earth did you get that info! That's horrendous.....

soupyspoon · 31/01/2025 22:26

Im not sure people are inherently bad and evil, in that this would imply people are born that way. I think some might but the majority of people like this are hugely damaged by childhood experiences.

However some are damaged so much that they will never change or be 'fixed'.

PermanentTemporary · 31/01/2025 22:32

Actually, I don't. I think they're are circumstances in which everyone can live in a way that is objectively better and doesn't significantly hurt others. I do think for some, those circumstances will only be enough when physically separated from other options. Maybe you wouldn't include that as someone being fixed?

Although I'm an atheist, I was brought up as a Protestant Christian so the ideas that everyone is a sinner but also that everyone is redeemable aree quite foundational in my worldview.

Chattycatt · 31/01/2025 22:34

I think some peoples life experiences and backgrounds have inhibited them to think differently thus they cannot change

Garlicworth · 31/01/2025 22:40

Yes, I think some people are just inherently selfish, cruel, or destructive. It's probably a combination of genetics and adverse experience in most cases; strongly antisocial behaviour can also be caused by illness or injury.

There are inmates in prisons and secure psych units who will never be coming out. I believe rehabilitation should always be explored, but accept it isn't always possible.

EveryOtherNameTaken · 31/01/2025 22:55

100% agree.

smallchange · 31/01/2025 22:58

Yes, I do think that some people can't be rehabilitated, but I don't believe we're particularly good at being able to reliably identify them so I don't know what you would want to do with that information.

unsync · 31/01/2025 23:03

Do you mean in addition to psychopaths and sociopaths?

Jumblebum · 31/01/2025 23:04

Just like some people's physical health is unfixable, some people's brain health is also unfixable. If this makes them dangerous to other people then they must be kept away from other people. It is not about good or evil because they are based on religious ideology. I personally don't believe in good or evil, I believe in people being broken or not broken.

Tittat50 · 31/01/2025 23:06

Yes absolutely. I am very interested in human psychology and have seen so so many horrendous stories now that I'm almost not shocked by the capacity for cruelty, depravity and more.

Every single person is self serving. Even when we look out for others it often has a self serving aim even subconsciously. But I agree that people seem to be able to walk on by now and I wonder whether so many people would just walk past someone in need in years gone by as now. I can't answer that tbh.

Many people develop fixed personality types that are more able to be cruel than others ( sociopath, narcissist, psychopath). They say narcissism is on the rise in individuals because of the modern environment. So that's a worry.

I watched a hideous documentary the other night about the boys in Afghanistan ( many will know what I mean). The extent of that collective abusive behaviour blew my mind. There seemed to be no conscience. The environment must feed that surely. And I know depravity and cruelty is absolutely present across every culture and group and profession even. I'd hate to read people's thoughts. It would be horrifying imo to realise how many people are just rotten.

Ponoka7 · 31/01/2025 23:10

Jumblebum · 31/01/2025 23:04

Just like some people's physical health is unfixable, some people's brain health is also unfixable. If this makes them dangerous to other people then they must be kept away from other people. It is not about good or evil because they are based on religious ideology. I personally don't believe in good or evil, I believe in people being broken or not broken.

I used to think like that, but so many of the SS officers (Holocaust) and other military etc people do horrendous acts, then live a normal life.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 31/01/2025 23:13

Interesting question… I do think yes some people are broken. It may not be entirely their fault but at the end of the day they are broken beyond repair.

I think the more interesting question is how many people are not broken only by the fact they live in a society with rules… the previous reference to brutal societies was interesting. How many monsters are lurking under the veneer of societal norms.

maddening · 31/01/2025 23:14

Chattycatt · 31/01/2025 22:34

I think some peoples life experiences and backgrounds have inhibited them to think differently thus they cannot change

And also head injuries

SemperIdem · 31/01/2025 23:16

I do think that some people are beyond rehabilitation, yes.

Thelnebriati · 31/01/2025 23:17

Some people have an internal moral compass, and others will act as far as the rules allow them to, or they think they can get away with.

Someone just posted this link on another thread, its about evil;
Gwen Adshead - Four Questions about Violence
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0025l4d

Tittat50 · 31/01/2025 23:21

@saltinesandcoffeecups yes I often ponder that. As I referenced that regime, I was thinking that exact thing to be honest. How many of our lovely old middle class neighbors might be absolute horrors who just did not have the opportunity or circumstance to express it.

The point about SS officers in the war is another great example of potential within many to do awful things. I have read reports where so many talk about their once lovely neighbours turning on them when the environmental situation changed ( the Holocaust).

Cupcakerat · 31/01/2025 23:22

Yanbu.

Ladamesansmerci · 31/01/2025 23:24

I think the only people who are truly inherently bad are genuine sociopaths, who I believe are born. I'm talking about the people who are killing animals as children, etc, despite having 'normal' circumstances. I think something has just gone wrong in their brain development that can't be fixed.

The vast majority of people are good and bad. Many people do bad things as a result of their life experiences. Poverty and shitty childhoods have a significant impact on crime. And your childhood and how you are parented is probably the most significant thing that affects your ability to form positive relationships and deal with conflict as an adult.

It's easy to see why people who were abused as children grow up to become abusers. It's easy to see why people with vulnerabilities (such as care leavers) get sucked into crime. A lot of young people who get sucked into terrorist groups are vulnerable to being groomed. Most people aren't able to reflect truly on their actions/unconscious beliefs and challenge them enough to change, and therapy is unaccessible to most (other than your 6 NHS sessions).

5128gap · 31/01/2025 23:30

I think every one of us is a mixture of the desire to indulge our own wishes, empathy for others and a drive to conform to the norms of our society in our time. I think these things exist in people at different levels and drive our behaviour accordingly. So a self serving person with low empathy may still avoid harming others to conform. The same person who has little desire to conform, maybe because they're alienated from others, will be more dangerous. Whether they can be 'fixed' or not would depend on whether they could be made to see value in conforming to the norms. You might also be able to fix them by encouraging empathy, but I'm not sure how successful that would be.

GoodEnoughParents · 31/01/2025 23:31

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 31/01/2025 22:25

1 in 6?! Where on earth did you get that info! That's horrendous.....

@Talkwhilstyouwalk

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

Sadly it's true

MeganM3 · 31/01/2025 23:34

People have both good and bad inside of them.

Some peoples bad side outweighs their good side. And their bad side can't be reduced or forgiven.

We don't have to forgive people for their bad behaviour. We are too forgiving, too accepting. To hopeful of 'rehabilitation'. Some people are too far gone.

Bakedpotatoes · 31/01/2025 23:34

I don't think paedophiles and sexual offenders/abusers can be rehabilitated. I believe they are a danger to women and children for life.

I don't believe in good and evil really and people are complex and situations are nuanced. But if you have gone down the road of abusing a child then I don't believe there is a way back. They are always a danger.

Tittat50 · 01/02/2025 00:04

Bakedpotatoes · 31/01/2025 23:34

I don't think paedophiles and sexual offenders/abusers can be rehabilitated. I believe they are a danger to women and children for life.

I don't believe in good and evil really and people are complex and situations are nuanced. But if you have gone down the road of abusing a child then I don't believe there is a way back. They are always a danger.

I need to look this up to check if it is factual - I was watching one of my weird crime programmes and I'm sure they said they'd scanned the brains of paedophiles and there were demonstrable differences compared to controls.

If that's true there's just no change there. I don't believe they can be rehabilitated , normal brain or not, but this did grab my attention.

I will research to check if that's actually believable.