AIBU to accept a +11 scholarship for DD but withdraw her at 16

[sportsmaddd]

My DD has been offered an academic scholarship for a private school local to us. We are over the moon for her as she is also quite sporty and is excited to have access to all the co-curricular activities that the school offers. The local state school is unfortunately in special measures, and some of our friends children, who are bright and hardworking kids, are finding that their classes are being disrupted and that many of their lessons are being taught by supply teachers.
On the other hand, the local sixth form college is pretty good and has an excellent reputation. Many of our DD's friends will be going there, and we think it would be the perfect transition to University if our DD decides to go down that route.
However, the academic scholarship my DD has been offered has terms and conditions attached including: "The offered scholarship is through to the end of Year 13. If the student leaves before that time, the School (at the Headmaster's discretion), may ask for repayment of the funding granted".
My sense is that this condition is pretty loose in legal terms. The school "may ask" for repayment if our DD leaves early, but where does it specify that we are obliged to repay an award? It is tricky for us to ascertain whether the school has ever asked for repayment of fees.
We wouldn't have funds really to keep DD at the private school for sixth form, even with the scholarship. We have factored in annual fee increases however.
Are we being unreasonable to accept this scholarship, even though we would take her out of school at the end of Year 11 to go to the local college?

Thank you! Yep - she might not want to sit A-Levels..

Thank you!

I have just had a friend in this situation - she wants to pull her daughter out of her school after GCSEs to go to a different sixth form but the school are demanding all scholarship/bursary savings to be paid back. Her contract sounds very similar to yours. So be careful and maybe get legal advice first or see if you can clarify this with the school - in my experience they will demand their money back and will go to great lengths to secure it.

I would be extremely wary about trying to play on the words of the Ts & Cs, it is quite petty given the school is giving you a hefty discount on the fees.

The school clearly wants to retain talent to y13 to bolster its not brilliant results at that age. That’s why it is offering you a bursary for the whole education contract until 18.

The clause says “may” because in some circumstances they might not ask - egif your dc moves far away, if you have an unexpected loss of income eg a parental death and can’t afford to stay at the school
, if they don’t want your dc to stay at the school for some reason.

If you just withdrew like the full-fee paying kids, to go to the better state sixth form college, I would fully expect them to change you.

They surely can't ask for repayment if you give them enough notice during Y11 - is this common? Where would their contractual loss be? How can they enforce this? Surely they have pupils wanting to come to private sixth form.

I would insist on amending that condition. How can you know what they will want to do in 5 years' time? They are business contracting with an individual customer and can't just put any old ridiculously detrimental contract terms in.

But you make most of your “forever” friends at high school and therefore she might not want to leave when it comes to it… seems strange to be worrying about it so early.

Really? I'm vaugely in touch with just one friend from High School. My forever friends are mostly from university onwards.

If you sign a contract you should stick to it. This school is willing to subsidize your DD. All they ask in return is that she stays until the end of year 13. If you sign this contract knowing you intend to break it what does that say about you and what are you modelling to your DD? My DD won a scholarship to an independent school many years ago. She went all through from 11-18 as that was the contract we signed. She gained enormously from attending both in terms of small classes and a huge number of extracurricular activities she wouldn't have experienced if not for her school including a 6 week Spanish summer school which she attended in Spain at very little extra cost to us. In return she represented the school at Open Evenings, her exam results helped pull the already good school average up, she spoke to the Ofsted inspector and she made many very good friends she still has including a Spanish girl from the summer school.

Or possibly.... Results dip at the private school because half their best students leave because they want to do state sixth form... Hence them including the clause about paying back if she doesn't stay til year 13.
The private school are clearly getting sick of parents enjoying the private edu til 16 then jumping ship so are looking to disincentivise this, so I expect yes you likely would need to pay back the bursary if she leaves

Take the scholarship and worry about the rest in a few years. Your daughter might want to stay beyond year 11.

It's a good opportunity for your daughter and I would take it at this stage, knowing what the other options are in your area.

5 years is a long time, children change so much between end of primary and end of secondary, can be like totally different people, different tastes, different views etc., so there is no guarantee she would want to leave where she was at the end of year 11 anyway. Or she could have gone goth and dropped out in year 9. Who knows!!

Get the wording checked and make sure you can afford to repay if necessary, even if that means saving towards it each year, and if it's not needed then put it towards uni costs, but I would accept

Agree they will probably try to enforce as it’s precisely that situation they are worried about

Also agree it’s woolly. The woolly bit is not “may” - that just means they can choose not to enforce- it’s “ask”. Ask just means ask?? Doesn’t mean you have to say yes. They should have put “may require”. And woolly contracts with consumers are interpreted against the drafter. So you’d stand a good chance of refusing IMO.

However. There is a risk they would be able to enforce repayment. Don’t take the scholarship unless you’re ok with some level of risk.

Congratulations to your clever daughter.

Independent schools offer scholarships and bursaries to secure high performing pupils to boost their GCSE & A levels results and RG University places. As such I would expect them to feel pretty sore if you accept their help now but don't give them their pay back in Y13. And in the present economic climate for private schools I think you would be foolish to bet on this school happily writing off that money.
If you can't afford 6th form you should flag this now, explaining that you are funding Ys7-11 from an inheritance that doesn't stretch to Ys12-13. If your DD is a star performer at Y11 they have the option to increase the bursary above 20% to get you over the line. If you flag now that you can't afford Ys12-13 you'll be in a much stronger position to move her in five years.
Either way, be prepared for forensic scrutiny of your household finances.

The difference here seems to be that the friends would likely leave to go to the state sixth form anyway.

When did she say?? Why can’t she enjoy what is offered by private schools. Well done to the OP and her daughter, it’s not easy getting a scholarship. So many people on these threads seem to be very bitter, maybe their DC aren’t as bright 😕

If you know for sure that you wouldn’t be able to afford the sixth form even with the scholarship (if she still has that) then you don’t have a choice…

The only issue you might find is that in five years time she may really want to stay there. It could also help her job prospects more than going to the local college.

Your daughter will have lots of friends in her new school by then.

If you send her, you should plan to send her for the whole time

They are offering it because they want her to push up their A level results. If she is doing well I wouldn't disrupt, if she isn't a high performer they will be happy to let her go.

I'd be inclined to ask them for some clarification about the conditions. What if they don't offer the A-levels she wants to do? What if your financial circumstances change and you can no longer afford the 80%? What if the school doesn't meet your expectations (if she has to meet theirs)? What if your work means you need to relocate? Putting the questions may help clarify - although they probably do draw the line before "moving to the state sixth form to do subjects that they offer with no obvious reason why you can't continue to pay the 80% fees".

I might also want to know more about "meeting their expectations" - is that just in terms of completing work set, or is it about how well they achieve? It's one thing to remove a scholarship from someone who is making no effort, but another if they are working well but turn out to find some subjects harder than anticipated.

I think private secondaries near good state sixth forms do have a problem, and I can see why they'd try and tie you in. I know a couple of kids at different schools near us who have been offered scholarships to try and keep them post-16 - in one case that is conditional on withdrawing their application to the state sixth forms immediately.

I would nod and smile and cross that bridge.
Unless they are offering free 6th form, they cannot hold you to it

My husband and his siblings had the same condition on their scholarships about staying until year 13. It was because the clever scholarship kids get into the top unis and schools want to be able to claim the credit for promotional reasons. In DH's case he and his siblings all got in to Oxford or Cambridge and were wheeled out endlessly by the school for events, press and promo materials. To them it was worth it to get a 40k a year education for free in an area with abysmal state schools. Their school definitely would have enforced the clause unless there were a very good reason for removing the child. They've made a huge investment and they want the returns.

I’d just clarify with them now that you are delighted to be offered the scholarship, but want to be upfront that finances will not stretch to sixth form. Tell them you would prefer to let them know this at the earliest opportunity in case it impacts their ability to offer the scholarship.

I wouldn't make judgements about sixth form attendance based off the back of primary school friendship groups...

I read it the same way 🤣
Also, the school want the brightest academics for A Level results and onwards destination. They would claim it back for sure. If your house is in your name and I was acting for a school, I'd be putting a charge over it to enforce against a future sale. So I'd be looking to see what assets you had for enforcement.

Personally I would be upfront with the school about the situation. I would also ask them to remove that clause of the contract. I agree that it seems a bit woolly but it's not impossible that a court would decide it is binding, and why have that hanging over your head?