Royal Ballet...is this the end?

[ruthgordon123]

I thought in my childhood the whole point of ballet was to body shame. Can you really sue? I had inturned feet and madame pushed them down so I could do an agonising demi plie. Surely sometimes you must be given a chance and then realise it's not for you. Ballet is body dysmorphia surely. Im I being unreasonable.

Sorry, I don’t understand your question?

Who forced you to take part in the ballet? Sue that person.

The RB settled a legal case brought by a former member of the RB school who says the body-shaming she was subjected to by teachers left her with an eating disorder and body dysmorphia.

Yes there is a question about ballet and the requirements on a body to be "good enough "

I read somewhere that the height legs are lifted has been raised tremendously since the 1930s - everything has been exaggerated

It is now extreme - but I don't think it's the only thing that has requirements bordering on abusive - gymnastics also I wonder

I was big into dance as a child and a teenager and I always remember my most strict teacher who had been trained in some ballet broading school somewhere telling us she was going easy on us, and that she had been starved and when she passed out they would give her a spoon of honey and tell her to get back to the barre.

Up until that point I had always admired ballet dancers strong bodies. So yes, you have a point. Luckily I had sensible parents.

I agree. I have an old ballet annual from the early sixties, and there are rows of relatively chunky senior students at the barre.
I mean, they are not chunky, but they would be considered to be now.

My ballet teacher had a cane and she'd whack our legs if they weren't right 😁 i don't feel abused or traumatised <gibber> 😂

Shouldn't it be possible to teach ballet without telling children that their bodies are disgusting, suggesting which parts of it should be cut off, and encouraging them to smoke as a means of cutting down on eating?

If those exact methods are necessary, then hopefully ballet has indeed had its day.

The men don't have it any easier either.

Your post is a bit ambiguous - are you saying all this is a necessary part of ballet and it can't exist without it?

I think it has a lot to do with Balanchine's body aesthetic in the 1960s when he set up NYCB. It then set a precedent for tall thin dancers - that changed things. If you look back to the film 'The Red Shoes' in 1948 the body type (Moira Shearer etc )was pretty much normal.

The 1960s did have a thin body ideal across all of the western world though look at twiggy etc so I am not sure Balanchine is to blame for it all or if he created the movement?

A former friend of mine was at the white Lodge Lower School I think it's called (the Royal Ballet school) for a couple of years in her early teens. Her classmates went on to be main dancers at the Royal Ballet.

They used to eat toilet paper. Because they were told at 13/14 they were too heavy/big but were starving having been training for hours each day so it was a trick the students passed down. Boys as well as girls. This was in the late 80s/early 90s.

My friends mum was a lovely lady and would never had stood for this if she'd have known but it was weekly boarding and she ate normally at home. She hid it all from her parents as that's what they thought was needed to realise their dream.

My friend left after it was discovered she had a spinal issue as she finished growing- nothing major for a normal person but enough to stop her being a professional dancer. She had a real issue with her weight (and also bad relationships) since.

the standard of ballet now is so high the training is so intense it does require extreme levels of pushing your body that ultimately is damaging

does the training need to be so harsh this is difficult as with most athletes they will need to be pushed to reach their potential

do teachers need to be so cruel no but it does produce at times excellency and that is what we want to be entrained by

the worse ballet teacher I had must have been in her 80’s she seemed to absolutely hate us, she would belittle us all the time but we wanted gain her praise and on the odd occasion we did we then worked harder the next time to get it again

it’s very cruel way to treat children and young adults

I read an article once about how awful Margot Fonteyn's feet were. Dancing en pointe does dreadful things to feet. At least male dancers don't suffer that. Reminds me of chinese feet binding. Horrific.

Let’s hope it’s the end. I think it’s all very cruel.

Are you saying that it’s ok that dancers develop body dysmorphia and eating disorders because it’s the Royal Ballet?

Surely you can see the difference between a teacher trying to improve your turnout, and one who repeatedly tells an already petite student that she's too big and needs to lose weight. The former is about technique, the latter is unnecessary and cruel body shaming.

It seems as though young girls are being given lifelong eating and body disorders because of the way teachers are behaving in these schools.

Ellen should be incredibly proud of herself for bringing her experiences to light. It can't have been easy. And shame on the school for not issuing an apology.

For anyone who isn't aware of the case OP is referring to; it was discussed on Woman's Hour yesterday morning, and there's also a Panorama episode about it from last year too. Really eye-opening.

Their feet are all awful!

A friend of mine in her sixties trained at White Lodge but mostly had a career as soloist with Rambert and Scottish National Ballet, and she’s always very funny and retrospectively appalled on their disordered eating, and on just how little you were eating while pushing through daily classes, rehearsals and performances. She has an extremely black-comic mini-routine of an entire company saying ‘You’re not going to eat all that biscuit, are you?’ to someone. About a digestive.

It's a difficult one, obviously abuse & starvation isn't right but some bodies do suit different sports & there is genetic advantage. I have good ballet feet (very high instep) & natural turnout but was never going to be a prima ballerina as I'm tall & love food. I'm absolutely crap at sprinting.

My aunt was a professional ballet dancer (Rome/Paris/ Vegas) in the 60s and early 70s. I’d agree about body shapes changing (I attend Royal Ballet performances as often as I can). Looking at her incredible photos of her career I can see how toned and flexible she was (is!), yet there is a little softness overlying that. I also noted things like body hair on arms. She has incredible memories of her career and ran her own ballet school for decades after she retired. Her students continue to visit her and many of them have careers in dance.

Dancing en pointe does dreadful things to feet

All my teachers had dreadful feet which also put me off as I like mine 😆

That’s awful. I know a couple of girls at a white Lodge and haven’t heard anything like that. Hopefully things have changed. Who know though.

You could argue that for a lot of sports. It is abuse if there is no choice or someone is manipulated/ coerced into certain decisions about their body but people put themselves through all sorts of trauma to get to the top of their chosen sport. Talk to anyone at the top of their game and what they have had to do to ensure they got there.

@Dulra agree.

I think the distinction here is that being painfully skinny does not give you an advantage in Ballet. It's absolutely an aesthetic issue. If you look at photos of the woman who brought this case against the dance school (Ellen Elphick), she is absolutely toned, fit and lithe. Videos she has posted online show that she dances beautifully. In fact, she wouldn't have gained a place at the most prestigious ballet school if she didn't.

Telling her and others like her to lose weight wasn't about improving her technique, it was about achieving a certain look, which for many can be very unhealthy.

Totally unnecessary and outdated.