To be surprised and a bit shocked

[Thomasina79]

That a high percentage of young people cannot name the concentration camps of the Second World War in Germany and some are not even aware of the atrocities committed.

in the light of the far right extremism in Europe rising up, financial instability, anti semitism/anti Muslim are we nit in danger of history repeating itself. People have poor memories.. yes sadly there have been many many wars since, some all too recently. The situation in the world is all so worrying and I fear for my grandchildren and adult children.

It would be more important teaching them about the signs of fascism, so they learn to recognise them. So many people don't see what's happening right in front of their eyes - the rise of Trump, Putin, Orban, Netanyahu, Farage, etc. I have seen young Isrealis behave despicably in Auschwitz; what have they learnt?

As long as it's a caring dictator. But that's never happened. People are too stupid to vote for a decent government. Hence the right wing dominance these days.

Plus i think you mean the ones in Poland, not Germany….

Having Israeli friends, I can tell you they all know about the Holocaust very vividly. The behaviour of a few does not represent the majority. The rise of what MSM is calling "the far right" is a response to the appalling mess the UK&EU have made of immigration, how those immigrants have behaved and how governments & MSM are misrepresenting the crimes committed.

A 15 yo white women in Germany was gang raped by immigrants, 9 sets of DNA were "recovered" from her body. One person got a 6 month suspended sentence and that was it. The women found out the guys contact details and sent him a message calling him a pig. For that she got a weekend in a jail cell, arguably a stiffer sentence than all of her rapists put together. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deccanherald.com/amp/story/world%252Fgerman-court-gives-woman-harsher-punishment-than-convicted-rapist-for-calling-him-disgraceful-pig-3086695

And that's just one example.

Text books about concentration camps actually start being used early in primary schools, such as Rose Blanche (link below). WWII & concentration camps are covered in year 6.

https://amzn.to/3xaqmER

Who stole their country and where did it go?

As far as I can see my country is still where it always has been.

Also the two things are not mutually exclusive.

Oh Jesus Christ I see you are one those that thinks “two tier policing” is a thing. It is but the data shows not the way you think it is.

The two tier phrase is SUCH a giveaway.

Eta:

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/home-office-yvette-cooper-extremism-review-two-tier-policing-b1207509.html

Two tier policing IS a thing and it's not difficult to find examples of it.

I note you don't bother to say anything about the gang rape & the outcomes, itself an example of two tier policing.

I’m sorry I offended you. Even teenagers can discuss things! They need to talk and discuss others opinions so they can evaluate and form opinions of their own, not opinions pushed on to them by a teachers perspective. What if that teacher has antisemitic tendencies and inadvertently pushes their rhetoric. We all learn by discussion and evaluation, not just from facts presented by one person.

Do you have a good example of benign dictatorship in history or modern days?

I can’t think of any…

Haven't read later posts - but I asked my teenagers and they could name Auschwitz, and knew about the holocaust. Covered it in English and History. DS also had to read The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas in year 8.

The government set the curriculum for schools so I would be surprised if any children don;t have at least this level of knowledge.

"Even teenagers can discuss things" Indeed. I have decades of experience of just this.
However, it's not good to have an open and uninformed discussion. You can imagine how challenging and sensitive this topic is. Students are given facts from various sources, from which they build up their knowledge and understanding. They are encouraged to ask questions and to reflect on what they have learned.
I think you musunderstand. No one teacher "pushes" anything. The whole structure of lessons does not support this.
A teacher with antisemitic tendencies? One would hope they would be dismissed. We are checked and monitored regularly. We can't just "push" our agenda.
I have taught the Holocaust every year for more than 30 years. I have never "pushed" my agenda, suppressed natural teenage curiosity nor have I, at any stage - minimised the horrors of this crime against humanity. 🕯️

I have often said this. The problem with democracy is that projects can take a really long time to make a difference, and an election cycle is too short. So people say “that didn’t work” and vote for someone else, when actually it may have needed another 5-10 years to bear fruit.

But benign dictators are few and far between sadly!

I didn't do history and am crap at remembering facts, such as place names, but i have been to 2 concentration camps.

However I do understand the nature of the Holocaust, the lead up to it, and other pertinent issues.

Algeria though, no sorry I know nothing about Algerian atrocities pre/post war.

You might need an authoritarian leader in wartime (some would put Winston Churchill in this category), but a more collaborative style of leadership in peacetime.

I fear it's the erosion of critical thinking in education that'll do for us. That's what causes history to repeat rather than not remembering names and dates.

I’m Irish and I was shocked how little British people know about Irish history particularly the famine, eg how/why it started and how many people died. It’s not an anti British thing but a lot of things are left out of history and it can be biased

Robert Peel and the Corn Laws was part of my A Level History syllabus back in the 90s, but I agree it's not widely known about in the UK. Possibly more in Merseyside where I was brought up due to the Irish immigration into Liverpool. Horrific and quite emotional for those of us with Irish ancestry.

I still can't get a passport though!

I will say that as a child who went to school in the 90s and 00s, we learnt hardly anything about the World Wars. We studied WWII for one year in primary, but nothing about WWI. I only studied history until year 9 in high school, but nothing at all was mentioned about either in that time.

Oh my goodness. This is wrong in every way. But, why are you giving us a say? We wouldn’t have one in a dictatorship. How would a dictatorship end?

Try Plato's Republic for answers (and more questions) about that.

This! We were all taken to the cinema to watch Schindlers List.

That's so sad.

I always find in order to understand WWII you need to understand WWI and the treaty of Versailles. (The treaty also holds a lot of information about the middle east and can give an understanding of some of the current situation.)
I also believe that in oder to understand why the holocaust happened, you need to understand the history of the European Jews. The holocaust itself is just a sad great crescendo of something that has been going on for centuries.

But that's mostly for history buffs, apart from the treaty of Versailles comment. It does hold some answers.

Read it.

Probably a debate that deserves its own thread, but in some cases, yeah, it would be.

Dictatorships tend to be more efficient—decisions get made fast. Democracies are messy and expensive.

Personally, I think people are too stupid for democracy—just look at the mess caused by Brexit. But like I said, that’s a whole other debate.

That a high percentage of young people cannot name the concentration camps of the Second World War in Germany

Based on what source of data?

I'm aware of the concentration camps but couldn’t name any. Should this be taught in schools? Are you suggesting people should actively seek out this knowledge?

Tragic events resonate differently depending on personal and cultural perspectives.

For example, the British Empire devastated India, leading to millions of deaths. Winston Churchill’s policies contributed to the Bengal famine, killing 3.8 million people. For some, especially those from that region, this history holds greater significance.

Should I expect you to know that?

People have poor memories..

People aren’t educated on certain parts of history, and that knowledge needs to be taught—either in schools or by parents.

There have been many many wars since, some all too recently. The situation in the world is all so worrying and I fear for my grandchildren and adult children.

The world hasn’t changed, aside from technological and scientific advancements.

Human behaviour remains the same—wars have been waged since the dawn of civilisation. What makes you think that will ever change? It’s in our biological makeup. For 95% of our existence, humans were hunter-gatherers; fighting and killing are ingrained in our DNA.

And that’s just the way it is.