AIBU - to think it’s wrong to allow students to cheat to get better grades? ?

[Banyon]

Oxford and Cambridge (and others) to move away from ‘traditional’ exams to boost results of minorities. AIBU to think this doesn’t fix the “problem” of attainment gap?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/oxford-cambridge-move-away-traditional-150807467.html

What’s the point of Uni learning & degree if it’s all open-book exams.

AIBU to think Universities should support students to actually learn and make good grades without resorting to everyone cheating & using AI???

Do they think some student groups are that hopeless that they cannot be taught to be successful in traditional exams?

How have you jumped from open book exams to using AI? It’s more like having a crib sheet of equations/quotations. The student still needs to answer the questions.

Open book exams have always been a thing.

I don't think having a photographic memory is the only sign of intelligence. The ability to analyse can be better tested with an open book exam where there is lots of material involved.

I read that article.

Absolutely and incredibly offensive.

This is such a classic populist trigger. I did an exam for being a judge twenty years ago and it was open book. Open book exams have been used for many years in areas in which rote learning is of limited value and the issue is analysis/critical thought.

If anything that has become a more appropriate way of testing since I did that exam.

Open book exams aren’t cheating or using AI.
The questions tend to be tougher and the standard for high marks is higher.
It reflects the real world/jobs- in all of them you have reference material to access to provide the correct answer. Eg, a legal expert answering a question isn’t going to do it off the cuff from memory, they are going to look up the statutes and look up the case law.

Ironically, considering Chinese and Indian students will be their highest achieving students, they will presumably screw those ethnic minorities over in order to boost the chances of less high achieving ethnic minorities??? How will they square that conundrum? This has all gone batshit.

You'd like to hope that any student reading at Oxford or Cambridge was the best of the best and had got in on fierce competition and merit. They shouldn't need to have anything lowered or made easy for them. Not only is it patronising and offensive to those students, but more importantly, it should be a complete meritocracy. Standards should be raised, not lowered. You want the brightest students on merit getting the best grades.

Having said that, open book exams are fairly normal and nothing new. I went to a top university and they had them there (though not in my major). If everyone is doing the same open book exam, the playing field is still level and fair as they're all most likely graded on a curve. It doesn't change anything.

I sat open book exams at university in 1981. It was English Lit and the rationale was that we were not being tested on our ability to remember quotations.

Open book exams can be a hindrance rather than a help, if you don't "know your stuff" to the extent of needing to look everything up, so spend valuable time trawling through. The skill comes in analysing and using it effectively, where precise formulas, or lists of dates, can be useful for a quick check. I can still remember school friends from my O-level days, where we learned reams of stuff off by heart, coming seriously adrift when we stepped up to A-levels.
You needs to understand why you are using a method, rather than applying it blindly.

ChatGBT is popular among students, of course, a good student will add to that AI results. Are you familiar with its uses? Have you tried it? It would be a natural tool to use, much more robust than a crib sheet in answering complex in depth questions

In any event, the point being made, is that this method, they hypothesize, will raise scores of some groups of students lessening the attainment gap (or just changing the definition of attainment ?). It makes top grades more accessible by changing the skills required and method for attaining success. The best grades given to students who can harness the chatgbt effectively to enhance their performance.

(The headline so shocking I thought it was fake news at first … )

If you are not familiar w chatgbt -
www.oxbridgeessays.com/blog/how-to-properly-write-an-essay-outline-using-ai-chatgpt/

I am not a native English speaker and when I was writing my Masters dissertation (pre ChatGPT) my partner who has PhD in English literature was editing my final paper. I could have submitted it as is but I was told that there is a small mark down given for grammatical and syntax mistakes. I suppose I cheated then. However, my subject was clinical science and someone proof-reading my work did not affect my knowledge of the subject or the strength of my original research project. What it did, though, is close the attainment gap between someone from an immigrant background and a native English speaker. Or so I thought... because a few months later I was co-supervising an undergrad's dissertation and was pulling my hair out as she could hardly string a coherent sentence together.

I had an open book exam during my law degree, and a timed essay which was not under exam conditions but was graded.

Both by far the most difficult of all the exams and essays I did during the degree.

That isn’t to say that all open book exams are made equal but it isn’t a given that they will be easy, either.

I did a Cambridge degree.

The exams are hard and you are under time pressure. Being able to take books in is of limited use.

I am familiar with both AI Chatbots and open book exams. Thanks for attempting to mansplain Chatbots though. My point is that they aren’t synonymous. Open book exams predate Chatbots by decades. I believe universities can run coursework through detectors - why would they not be able to do the same for exam answers?

OP, have you ever used ChapGPT extensively? Let me say that I am a total fan, BUT the info returned is not 100% accurate so you then have to check it. I recently asked it for a list of specialist medical providers in a certain city, some didn't provide the specific testing, I had asked for, two had closed down and only one was suitable.

If I were a student, having the book in front of me would be better than using AI for info.

I don't have a problem with open book exams, but i do think we need to address WHY minorities are doing badly in the current exams

University lecturers I know are talking about going back to traditional hand-written exams due to AI. AI has only recently been launched widely and, while it does have its issues, it is only likely to improve.

In terms of underperforming groups - does this help the most underachieving group in the UK; white working class boys?

In any event, the point being made, is that this method, they hypothesize, will raise scores of some groups of students lessening the attainment gap (or just changing the definition of attainment ?)

Why did you equate this with cheating?

Ok, I’m convinced. No contact, take home open book exams will close the attainment gap and isn’t making top scores easier to attain, doesn’t allow students to have help from others (cheating, or at least that used to be cheating) or AI.

It’s probably true that these proposed exam formats will support certain groups of students in achieving academic success that isn’t achievable in current practices.

I’m sure all students currently learning to the same levels, it’s just some don’t do well in traditional exams. All good.