To believe most people who say they care about the environment are hypocrites?

[SharpUmberLeader]

I hear so many people talk about reducing waste or going green but they still fly multiple times a year, buy fast fashion, or order takeaway in plastic containers. AIBU to think most people aren’t actually practicing what they preach about sustainability?

I live in a different country to my family so yes I fly a lot.

however don’t use a disposable nappy, disposable wipes or new baby clothes ! I use reusable wipes and nappies and shop on Vinted and use my older child’s clothes for him. Even most of our toys are second hand - my daughters brio set and all her boxes and Boxes of duplo are also second hand

all you can do is your best and the impact on a personal level is minimal anyway - unless big corporations give a shit then nothing much is going to be solved.

But even if we all stopped overnight, it would still make absolutely no difference.

Saw some eco protesters outside our Barclays bank this morning. I thought to myself, I bet your clothes are made in a sweatshop powered by fossil fuel power stations in China somewhere.

Nail on the head. Like the way the UK transported loads of our rubbish/recyclables half way round the world to be "recycled" - or in reality, dumped elsewhere.

The point isn't really the UK vs China.

It's coming to grips with the fact that our modern lifestyle is extremely energy intensive.

The energy isn't just the energy used to make crisp packets and flights to Bali. It's also the energy needed for hospitals, heating for the elderly, food production and supply chains, etc.

It's also the energy needed to produce the technology used to power the green revolution - factories making batteries and solar cells, etc.

Which part of that "modern lifestyle" should we cut back on?

It shouldn't be about cutting back on energy use - it's about having and using the right kind of energy

Energy reduction where you have the wrong kind of energy or where there is insufficient green energy to go around

I have rarely been anywhere where simple changes were not possible

I think it's pretty simple to see what needs to happen
Funding it is more difficult as driven by short sighted economic models

We don't need to return to the Stone Age to live an environmental sensitive life

When most people talk about sustainability they mean they want technology to fix it so that they can sustain their current lifestyles without feeling bad about environmental impact.

It's better for people to care and do what they feel they can than to throw their hands up. It doesn't help when someone comes along, judgy pants hoiked right up, and declares what 'enough' is. We should encourage people as much as we can.

Cut back where there is wastage or unnecessary usage and also transition to green energy sources.

No one is advocating cutting back on life support machines.

But there is much we can do in everyday life to cut energy use. Look at how much heat still goes straight up out of people's uninsulated lofts/roofs for example.

What simple changes?

Charles is always lauded as the ultimate climate activist yet his carbon footprint is fucking massive (he never gets challenged on this though - astonishing really!) so when that’s supposed to be our inspiration I think us mere mortals can be forgiven for a little hypocrisy 🤷‍♀️

A lot of things that are better for the environment have a cost - in terms of time, money or both. And most people will do what is most convenient at a level of "cost" that they feel comfortable with (myself included)

In the modern world it's almost inescapable to live without creating some kind of impact. Using our phones and tech has an environmental cost but often is the only way to communicate, or access services. In a lot of areas, public transport is poor or non existent so they need to make multiple car journeys.

I don't buy fast fashion, I shop at charity shops, I rarely fly (3 times since 2014) , recycle as much as possible, don't replace tech very frequently ....but also I have 2 children, have pets, I eat meat, and today drove 5 miles in a petrol car, to do a parkrun (unnecessary car journey)

In answer to the OP, I have made various choices, some big some small, with the intention of reducing energy consumption.

If I ever talk about the specifics of my choices some prats people get weirdly angry. I don't start these discussions I hasten to add, I am not in the business of announcing my choices to random people.

Yes, I think it really needs to come from the top.

The simplest of all is increased insulation.

Another is investment in/promotion of safe walking and cycling.

Well yes, i think everyone is really. Because its virtually impossible to live a completely virtuous environmentally friendly life. We should all be vegan, childfree, non-car owners who never fly anywhere.

The reality is, that the masses are pissing in the wind really against big business, governments etc who can make really impactful changes. But the way to get them to make changes is for more people to care and to ahow them thatbby making the small changes.

Exactly this.
I have made a similar point on threaDs on this topic. China and India aren't manufacturing massive amounts of goods, cars and tech for themselves. It's because everyone else in the western world wants it and is buying it. I bought new towels recently (old ones are 20+ years old and were recycled) and they were made in India....but had I researched and found some made in the UK(if that exists) that would be extra transportation for an item I bought alongside other shopping (and would likely be at a much greater cost)

These are chicken feed in relation to what needs doing

And this is the problem.

We are in an era where the pessimistic and the cynical are keeping us from moving forwards in any way.

No point doing this, it is too small...
No point doing that, it is too complex...

These mindsets are a problem. Big situations need determined, realistic but also hopeful people.

No, it's not the problem, the problem is there's no consensus on what needs doing, the deep/light/bright greens have conflicting views on what needs doing. Even if we did all do "something" we would still be pulling in different directions to no effect.

Not really. Out habits amount to a miniscule amount of China's emissions. Way less than 1%

Pessimistic or realistic?

The UK is small fry. We are a tiny Island with a tiny population - we make up just 0.9% of the world. Even if every single person changed their habits, it would genuinely make no difference to the state of the world.

Hypocrites? No. Most of us care. But we know anything we do has minimal effect. The conferences, the main players don't even attend. China etc. Gasoline and power companies do nothing. Governments do little. Our recycling goes to far flung places and gets dumped. We are small fry, the big boys don't comply. So yes I do my best, but I don't worry about an annual holiday flight.

I don't preach anything. I don't know anyone who does. I care about the environment and I try to change things that I can, whilst not retiring to live naked in a hole in the ground.

But I'm not the one starting judgemental threads calling people hypocrites, so I look forward to your sharing what exactly you are doing to ensure that you have no adverse impact on the global climate.

We're all hypocrites.

But some people do make a real effort, and some don't care.

There's a big gulf between people who eg don't buy or use any single use plastic and walk/cycle everywhere to those who think it's ok to fly private jets and throw their rubbish out of their car windows.

I also agree it's good if everyone does a little bit. The impact is much greater than a few doing a lot.

And it's always worth remembering on rubbish that well over 90% of waste is caused by industry - so they can do a lot to get their houses in order.