10 years for carrying a knife

[Hoover2025]

I have just watched question time. Everyone saying it’s complicated. We couldn’t have stopped this.

But we could have done.

This male was caught with a knife in public twice. If he had been jailed he wouldn’t have been free to commit these murders. Sure that might have just delayed things. But maybe not. He wouldn’t internet access anymore. Isolation to radicalise himself. There’s also a chance someone would have said there’s something not right with you and they might have had treatment of some kind.

I also think generally this will reduce knife crime drastically. I’m pretty sure >90% of people carrying knives aren’t actually murdering / or planning to murder someone at that very point in time. Something happens and then the knife comes out.

Why is no talking about this as the obvious step. It’s not the complicated problem of knife access/ purchase. It’s quite simply - you carry and you lose your freedom.

Joanna Dennehy?

There are lots of reasons people might have a knife on them. Diving knives could do a lot of damage but are needed for underwater safety.

One thing that was working was education, but that is not cheap

There was a group that went into schools and explained what damage a knife can do, i.e. that sticking a knife in someone's bum might be a joke but could kill them.

As a society we should be funding the education around knives. It won't stop it all together in the same way we all know cigarettes are bad for us, it doesn't stop people smoking. We have cut the smoking rate through education, the gay community changed behaviour in response to education about HIV / AIDS.

benkinsella.org.uk/knife-crime-awareness-training/#:~:text=We%20deliver%20a%20wide%20range,suit%20your%20organisation%20or%20setting.

@ItsJustADream

There are reasons for having a knife. Chefs often bring knives with them, trades need knives for cutting , fishermen need knives, they are also invaluable in many ways eg camping, hiking, emergency car repairs.

What we need is clear guidelines on purchasing knives so they don't get into the hands of teens except for proper reasons. It may only be a Swiss Army knife, so not a long blade but it saved my camping trip last year, wouldn't want to be without it

There are lots of reasons people might have a knife on them. Diving knives could do a lot of damage but are needed for underwater safety.

You’re not going to carrying a diving knife without full diving kit though are you.

You know someone who wants to kill could literally walk from a kitchen to a street. So yes this isn’t going to stop people with intent in that moment. But what it does do is stop casual carrying as a habit or accepted normality which I am sure leads a large number of stabbings. And it removes people like Axel who go out and get caught.

Im not buying the chef one either tbh. Surely a chef can demonstrate their a chef and carry knives in a proper safety case or something. They aren’t just wandering round with a collection of loose knives in their rucksack. I don’t see why we can’t have licenses or rules around this.

I carry petrol and chemicals for work. It needs to be in a secure and lockable coshh safety box. I also do carry cutting equipment. But again that’s quite clear it’s for a trade, I work in that trade and I don’t take those on a Saturday.

Yes lets treat an outlier like he's representative of the majority eh, that helps.

Do me a fucking favour, try reading and responding to what I actually wrote.

My post was too simplistic to be fair. Obviously if you do nothing else but reduce sentences it’s not going to reduce crime. Obviously looking people up and throwing away the key would reduce crime. However, we are never going to lock up anything but a very tiny proportion of criminals indefinitely so we need to think about how to prevent reoffending. Programs to rehabilitate prisoners and prevent reoffending do have some success. I think Norway are particularly successful. North Dakota recently reformed its prisons based on Norway's approach as has reduced their reoffending rates.

paedophobia?
Most young people I know do no carry knives with them. Last time I checked I had no phobia of young people but I prefer them knifeless, don't you?

Taking their entire youth for carrying something? It's not just something it's a weapon, one that is now increasingly, perhaps on a weekly basis used to kill innocent members of the public. It's the knife carrier's choice and their parents supervision and responsibility. By all means don't punish the young person, punish their parents, make them pay a large penalty feel, limit internet access, I'm sure there are some creative solutions 🤔

What on earth these young men would be like after ten years inside. I don't think they will magically turn into upstanding members of society. I'm not sure it matters much in our out in terms of what they would be like. but for those 10 years the public is safer.

There is no need to carry a knife in public. Birthday cakes can be cut with a normal butter knife, nothing sharp needed. Some people come up with the weirdest objections.

Whether that's not tackling male violence in their youth, too wide a gap between rich and poor, a lack of social mobility, a lack of care, a lack of jobs and training, shitty schools, mums struggling, no youth outreach, no fun stuff to do that's not dodgy. Whatever it is, it didn't come from nowhere.

Tell us, what fund stuff do knife carriers want to do instead of looking for trouble. At the end of the day it's their parents responsibility. Don't have kids if you feckless or have a feckless partner. Birth control is cheep or free.S Stop blaming society, blame their parents who raise such useless feckless brutes.

A girl (white) carried a knife into our school. She showed it to the other kids to intimidate and impress them. Naice middle class girl with support and hobbies galore. WTF is wrong with her? In her case it was due to what she had seen on the internet combined with a not very nice personality. Parents need to stop making excuses and raise their children to be law abiding citizens. I really feel sorry for teachers and all the law abiding good young people. There are some feral youngsters around, mostly raised by disengaged ineffective parents who let their kids online without supervision. Vile.

North Dakota recently reformed its prisons based on Norway's approach as has reduced their reoffending rates

North Dakota is one of the safest American states. I assure you, knife crime by youths is NOT an issue there, hardly any cities in fact. Really … nothing to guide the UK there

But OP is suggesting a blanket "caught carrying a knife, 10 year sentence". You can't have that and then allow police discretion for birthday cake carriers.

Although M&S might love that- a surge in sales of Colin the Caterpillar as all violent knife-wielding maniacs carry one around with them as a defence.

Such a witty sense of humour to lighten up a tragic and raw topic👏

We can assume the OP means dangerous knives not plastic picnic knives? At least that was my interpretation. Some posters love to be contrary simply for the sake of it, never mind them and their not so clever comments OP.

@FeelingFeline - I was trying to point out the absurdity of saying there should be a black and white position on carrying a knife, but then suggesting police could have discretion to decide why someone is carrying a knife. It makes no sense.

No.

Say it was someone who for whatever reason had a table knife in his pocket when stopped by police. Would a jury convict if he was facing prison for 10 years? No.

It's been shown time and time again that you can't make effective laws based on the knee-jerk emotional responses of the public to a tragedy.

It's also been shown in research again and again that tougher sentencing doesn't prevent crime.

Ten years in prison just for carrying an object is absurd.

I grew up in an affluent leafy suburb, mostly white area in the 90’s. There was a sudden shift and the boys started carrying knives to protect themselves. The more had knives the more felt they had to have knives.

i think we need more metal detectors for schools, we need more referral systems for gangs - not terror related but gang and (mostly) male violence (like their was pre cuts). We need to offer these young (mostly) boys more in life than county lines and postcode wars.

Police use discretion all the time.

Dunblane?

Was he 14 at the time? [2019 and he's 18 now]. Are you proposing we sending 14 year old boys to prison?

Yes that’s exactly what I’m proposing if they carry knives.

And no I’m not talking about a table knife although why would be walking round with a table knife anyway.

In all my decades I have never gone out with a knife of any sort. It’s just not necessary.

There are reasons

You have just bought it and are taking it home
You are cooking a meal elsewhere and carrying a sharp knife with you
You are on your way to the allotment and are carrying your pruning knife with you.
You are on your way to a holiday apartment and are taking your good kitchen knives rather than rely on the usually blunt ones in the apartment

You have just bought it and are taking it home
Exemption for still in packaging with receipt from that day.

You are cooking a meal elsewhere and carrying a sharp knife with you
Who does that honestly? 100,000 people manage to camp and survive in Glastonbury for a week with no knives.

You are on your way to the allotment and are carrying your pruning knife with you.
Pruning knives are serrated, curved and not a stabby knife. Designed to cut without someone stabbing themselves.

You are on your way to a holiday apartment and are taking your good kitchen knives rather than rely on the usually blunt ones in the apartment.
Again who does this? But fair enough. I can put in an exemption for those clearly travelling to a holiday destination with half a car filled with household items or a suitcase filled with clearly kitchen stuff coming back from uni for example.

For clarity I am talking about people walking around in public spaces, or on public transport with stabby knives who are carrying very little else. I really don’t believe it’s beyond the wit of man to differentiate here.

And if the differentiation is too difficult to do for the police then registering movement of a knife through public with an online exemption form is what I suggest. Like how many times are people really taking knives to centre parcs on a train or moving house? If you must do this then surely you can fill a two minute form.

In what prisons?

Who does that honestly? 100,000 people manage to camp and survive in Glastonbury for a week with no knives. Self catering in a village hall or similar? I don't think Glastonbury attenders are noted for preparing vegetables/

Pruning knives are serrated, curved and not a stabby knife. No, that's a pruning saw. A pruning knife is non-serrated and very sharp. Usually with a less than 3inch blade and often folding, so exempt under the current knife-carrying law. Many gardeners are now using hori-hori knives - a long fixed blade, usually sharp on one edge, serrated on the other. It may not be designed as an offensive weapon but it certainly has potential to be used as one.

Again who does this? But fair enough. I can put in an exemption for those clearly travelling to a holiday destination with half a car filled with household items or a suitcase filled with clearly kitchen stuff coming back from uni for example. I always take my favourite cooking knife with me. But the more you allow exemptions, the more your law looks like the current law. You are simply asking for an increase in the sentence.

The mention of diving knives reminded me of caving knives, an essential bit of safety kit.

For clarity I am talking about people walking around in public spaces, or on public transport with stabby knives who are carrying very little else. I really don’t believe it’s beyond the wit of man to differentiate here. I'm glad you've clarified that. It wasn't clear from your OP.

The current law says "The maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife or weapon illegally is either 4 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both. You’ll get a prison sentence if you’re convicted of carrying a knife or weapon illegally more than once." You're not proposing anything different. You simply want to increase the penalties.

Giving prison sentences to reduce knife crime is not a new idea. Glasgow razor gangs were much reduced when the Sheriff for Glasgow at the time announced anyone before him on trial of wounding with a knife would be given ten years.

The weekend after that first sentence was handed out, Glasgow had it's first weekend without a slashing in years.

14 yo kids locked up for 10 years?

I'm out because saying what I think would get me banned.

The boy who was arrested a few days ago for stabbing to death a 12 year old schoolboy and violently assaulting several elderly people was 14 years old. I guess if he'd been found carrying a knife before he had murdered an adolescent for his bike some people would have been happy for him to claim he was carrying it for his own protection and let off with a warning.

Some people have an incredibly naive and masochistic attitude towards crime but why should the consequences of that be inflicted on the rest of society? If a 14 year old can't demonstrate a valid reason for carrying a knife or if they are carrying something like a zombie knife or machete then they should be sent to prison; maybe not for 10 years, but there should be custodial consequences.

If Rudakubana had been locked up for the two occasions when he was carrying a knife with violent intent then maybe he wouldn't have been free to commit an atrocity.