All my sisters are single mums

[LadyOutOfLuck]

Name changed for this.

Just that really. All my sisters (3 of us all together and I'm in the middle) are single mums.

I was with DC dad for 10 years before divorce.

Older sister was with DC dad for 8 - 10 years before her LO was born and they separated during pregnancy.

Youngest was with DC dad for less than 3 years before they had my nephew and they spilt up immediately after also.

Our parents were together for most of our childhood until I was 15. Mum remarried, dad didn't.

I don't know what I'm asking, but I do feel a sense of shame. All the dads are absolute shit. I don't know how we all made the same mistakes with partners.

I have a new partner now who is wonderful but I struggle with that part of insecurity, thinking that maybe he will be shit and I've chosen badly again. Or we:ll have kids and I'll end up a single mum again with more kids. It's really affected my sense of worth.

Most men are pretty poor tbh and many are only still in relationships because some women have more tolerance than others in terms of what they're prepared to put up with. If you come from a family where ditching the dead weight has been modelled to you as an acceptable course of action, then I suppose it's no wonder (and not necessarily a bad thing) that you're more prepared to follow suit.

Let's hope that by the time our children are grown up, men as a group will have got the message that their shit will no longer be tolerated and there is no alternative but to pull their weight and we'll all be happier (and less divorces and relationship breakdowns) as a result.

Well firstly I agree it’s nothing to be ashamed about. if people are judging someone for being a single mother, that says more about their own morals and ethics than anything else.

I had therapy in my early twenties after a disastrous relationship, which I ended when I finally realised my then fiance was actually a manipulative and abusive - just like my father.

the therapist told me that children learn about relationships from a much earlier age than we realise, so even though my parents divorced when I was around 3, and mum went on to have a wonderful marriage to my step dad (still happily married 40yrs later) I’d already been exposed to that unhealthy dynamic and ended up repeating it.

the freedom programme is often recommended for those who have experienced unhealthy relationships , but exploring your own experiences and motivations with someone is hugely valuable as every relationship is different so it’s about understanding your own specific history, and what is driving you to make decisions.

Way to shame your sisters for bringing up their kids independently, well done. 🙄

Nothing specific that I can remember I'm afraid (it was a long time ago)! But basically just a huge amount of books, blogs etc on the subject. They are of course other people's opinions, so I didn't take it all as gospel, but read enough different sources and you build up a picture.

My marriage was an absolute shitshow. I wanted to stay together like my parents have (52 years) but in the end I realised I was kidding myself. It just wasn't possible. It's far better to recognise that there's no flogging a dead horse, than still pretending it's alive whilst doing so.

@MemorableTrenchcoat she doesn’t say if it was gradual or sudden. But overall she is worried they are bad at picking men. Maybe they are or maybe they are just unlucky. To help solve an issue you need to fully understand the problem. If there is a pattern in any behaviour and it can be recognised it can be sometimes be broken if that person wants to put in the work.

I don't think anyone thinks that - I'm not sure how you got that from my comment at all either, obviously if people manage to find a good partner and work together to build a happy marriage they should stay in it...

OP I don't think you should feel ashamed. Presumably you and your sisters made the best choices you could at the time. But I do think you are right to be curious. What were the dynamics that caused each relationship to end? Were they similar or was the situation different in each case? Given your parents are still together, what did the three of you learn about relationships from them?

I think it's really important to say that while no one should feel shame, we also shouldn't gaslight people by saying that relationship breakdown is fine. Individual self-actualisation is important, but so is family stability, children seeing both parents, families being able to support themselves and provide enough resources for their children, and so on. Relationship breakdown often comes with high levels of conflict which are bad for children.

What should be happening is that these feckless fathers are chased up to maintain their children ( if not doing so!)

Exactly. The vast majority of couples I know are in poor relationships but the woman is putting up with immense crap from her partner.

I am trying very hard to make sure my DS grows up to be a good partner amd DD doesn't pick an idiot.

Contrary to what some say on here I don't think the blame for divorce should be put on women and their inability to choose suitable men. In my case, I was married for 20+ years, but only about 4-5 years in did my husband start to change. It was subtle and gradual. There were zero signs that he was going to go in that direction during our first years together. He was lovely, generous, caring. We went to therapy, we tried to work it out but in the end I left. I honestly don't think anyone could have forseen how he would change.

My parents were also together my entire childhood and only divorced later in life due to my dad's infedelity. Prior to that, their marriage had been very much a standard marriage. There was love and respect.

When I look at my friends today who are married, I honestly don't know why they put up with the shitty behaviour their husbands intermittently subjects them to. For them leaving is terrifying, for me it was a release. If anything, me leaving my marriage shows me that I do know how a decent man should be. It doesn't show that I don't know what a healthy relationship looks like.

Omg so much this!!

Surely it would be more shameful to stay with someone crap. My parents are still together in their 80s. My mum has slept with other men and she bullied me and my dad. I'm not that impressed with my dad for staying with her and not protecting me better from her. That's more shameful to me. It's not the 1950s any more when you stay with an abusive person to keep up appearances

I mean 10 years is a long to time to be with someone who then turned out to be a shit dad (been there, done that so it's not a criticism). It's interesting that both you and one of your sisters ended up in this type of relationship though.

Was your dad rubbish?

I don't think you should feel any shame though - not being with a man who is a shit dad is something to be proud of and your kids will thank you.

Omg this post almost could’ve been written by me !

The dads offer zero support and have minimal contact. No cases of DV, just men refusing to take responsibility. Two of the three live at home with their parents who have no desire to interact with their grandkids and make excuses like you would not believe for their sons behaviour. And then the third lives abroad with zero contact since birth. My dad moved back in with my grandparents after the divorce, and I remember them being distinctly on my dads side of everything, even when he was wrong. My grandad was a major pig as well. Its hard because there are young boys involved who crave male attention but there is none, bar step-granddad.

I'd like to think I could spot red flags from a mile away, but hyper-independence in me is hindering moving forward in a way.

Bollocks.

Dad was rubbish in many ways but not the worst dad ever.

I do try to, but then I just see the struggle of doing it all alone. There is no peace. Whilst independence is great, the burnout is immense.

Let's not pull any punches, it's bloomin' unfair. Of course it's better being alone than with a complete waster but you're left doing their share of the parenting often with less money. Cue immense stress.

There ought to be a tax on people (mostly men) who don't fulfil their caring responsibilities over and above the pittance which is child maintenance. They should have to pay an hourly rate into a central fund and all those parents and carers who have an unfair allocation of responsibility should be eligible for payouts from this fund.

Most men are pretty poor tbh and many are only still in relationships because some women have more tolerance than others in terms of what they're prepared to put up with

You only have to look at this forum.

Both the posters whom it's clear are not going to leave shitty men. And the posters who comment on deal breaking behaviour, advising that it's not deal breaking and that the poster should persevere, forgive, "work on it" etc. it seems like it doesn't matter what the men do as long as he appears to be "remorseful" and says he'll go to therapy.

There also persist the most incredible double standards; actually held to by women.

This is a good way to put it.
We do tend to replicate the relationship of our parents/primary caregivers, though, so what you describe is not unusual or mysterious at all.

Well said, thank you

I agree with @LadyGreyson absolutely. My parents had a horrible marriage followed by acrimonious divorce, I became a single mother young and for a time chose horrible partners, then fell lucky with DH who I have been with now for over 30 years. But I've had to do lots of inner work and practice communication in our marriage to avoid copying my parents' pattern.