AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

[Watermelonsuns]

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

The vast majority of care homes are privately owned and are making significant profits for already wealthy people. The money your parents pay for care isn't funding a nice life for them or even paying that nice carer a decent wage but are making rich people richer.

We should have a serious conversation about how the costs of care are taking wealth from less well off families while barely impacting rich families. It's a challenging conversation because indeed spreading the burdens of increasing care costs seems unfair to those whose parents care would always have been funded. They will be paying not only for their parents but for the parents of others too who will then receive an inheritance that they won't (perhaps we should be also looking at how we tax inheritance)

However let's not pretend that there's something more virtuous about paying for your care versus trying to dodge those fees. Either the OP inherits the money or very rich people get her parents money. Neither is exactly a moral choice.

That's not accurate. The state pay if someone needs nursing care, it comes from the NHS budget. That includes people with dementia. However, some people with dementia won't need nursing care so their care is arranged by social care and is chargeable.

Wow. Grabby much?

As others have said DOA is obviously a thing so we're looking at transferring the deeds to our dc well before we enter old age and this will become an issue. Too late for you op I know but what about looking at one of those equity release schemes so your parents can benefit now and then if in the future it has to be sold to cover costs then there wouldn't be much left?

Not a great idea @Gloriia because your kids could throw you out anytime they wanted as well as there being potential problems if they get divorced or go bankrupt.

Our services are all provided by private companies who want to make a profit.

Sorry, I should have said that it would need to be a fully nationalised service. Like the NHS, only more nationalised (because the NHS is broken up into separate trusts, etc. i.e. the 'internal market').

I can dream.

Sorry if already suggested as NRFT, but if they need carers and you are so desperate to protect any future inheritance, can't you and any other family members look after them yourselves whilst also employing private carers. We recently looked after an elderly relative, who wanted to remain in their home, by drawing up a rota between us for evenings and weekends and employing private carers to call in 3 times per day. It was still expensive, £25 per hour, but it was a lot cheaper than a care home and our relative was awarded attendance allowance which helped pay for care. We didn't do it to protect inheritance (they only had a flat worth about 80k and split between 8 of us, it wasn't worth stressing over). We did it as relative desperately wanted to remain in their home, they even had a catheter fitted and the carers were able to deal with this. It was hard work and we got to the stage where sometimes we thought it would be easier on everyone if relative just agreed to go into a home.

Have you tried claiming it? Most ordinary people without professional advocacy would find it very difficult and the NHS is not exactly open about it.

CHC funding is extremely hard to get. Yes she has dementia - aggressive/delusional from TIA's but is her behaviour predictable. Its bad but just not bad enough. Anyway they can get around paying for care they will.

Sure. I'll pay for your parents' care out of my taxes, to ensure that you inherit their home.

OP, are you one of those people who think 'the government' should fund everything, with no thought as to where – or who – that money comes from?

Agreed. We were lucky to get it because grandparent was definitely dying and wished to do so at home. We had it for two days and with a huge amount of directness and assertiveness. Even then it was still just a couple of visits from the GP nursing team and a syringe driver.

Prior to that she was self-funding at home with a mixture of local authority care worker visits, private carer visits and family carers, for three years with heart failure, kidney failure and dementia.

Personally I was very grateful that my parents had savings and their own property as we were able to choose a really nice care home for them. Care homes are not all equal - trust me.

However, if you want to make plans to pass over your own funds / housing to your DC so that you end up in the very cheapest council paid accommodation yourself, then now is the time to start (needs to be done way ahead of time due to deprivation of assets).

It would be nice if dd could inherit my home after I die but if I need a nursing home when I'm older and it's a choice between selling my house to pay for a nice nursing home or being council funded in a much cheaper home I know which I will be choosing. If that means dd doesn't inherit then so be it.

You get the same place. Self funders, council funders all in the same place.

Unless you're a millionaire and can choose a high end place but the average person forced to sell a a 200 - 400k house would be in the same home as those fully funded.

Home owners should not be penalised. What next, sell the car and any valuables too?

With regard to deprivation of assets, the 7 year rule does not apply. That is inheritance tax you are thinking of. If it can be proven as being what happened the council can and do go back many years beyond 7. I've known of them chasing money that was given away 15 years prior.

Secondly if there is property but it. Any be sold the council pays the fees but as all assets must be declared, the council is only providing a deferment of fees. Once the house is eventually sold they claim the money back

I’d like to sell my house, keep the money and have the council house me, do my gardening and clean my home. I’d also like them to cook my meals for me every day, and for this to cost me nothing so I can spend my money on designer clothes.

Once you figure out how your parents can do this, then please let me know how I can do it too while I’m in my 30s.

That’s how ridiculous the request for free care while keeping your money sounds.

I'm a social worker, I've claimed it for people I'm working with. We wouldn't place someone in a nursing home until the health funding is agreed as in legislation it is very clear that adult social care can't fund health care. We do place people in and fund care homes.
I'm not sure how it works privately but if the management of a nursing home are saying someone needs nursing care but aren't entitled to health funding they aren't being transparent, either the person doesn't need nursing care or the home make more in private fees so don't want to support the application for funding.

What about the taxes that her parents have paid?

What about them?

We pay for ourselves all our lives. What makes people think that weirdly you suddenly don't when you are very old?

Even if care is free, someone has to pay for their accommodation and food. Also cleaning/washing clothes and room. They also have activities.
We have told our DP that we will do everything in our power to keep them home, cleaner, care worker and going every day. Shame there isn’t an air tag like the implant. But they need their dignity and I can’t treat them like children.

If your Dad sadly died and your Mum moved into a home why should she not pay.

She will be fed, what is unreasonable about her contributing to the cost of the food she eats and paying the person who cooked it for her?
She will be kept warm, what’s unreasonable about her contributing to heating costs? The same applies to electricity for lighting, running the TV, council tax, water, buildings insurance?
If she needs personal care why should the carers not be paid?

Having the cash doesn't necessarily guarantee the best care home - it all depends on vacancies and the type of care needed and offered by the home.
You also have to think of the future if they just need support now would they need to change homes as their condition changed to need dementia care or nursing care.
Also once both parents are in a care home the house they lived in is no longer their home - they ain't going back there. It is just a future source of cash either for their care or when they die for your inheritance.
Sorry mate but why should everyone else's tax and council tax go to you.

Exactly, I've done my best to read through the responses but I think people are confused that I want money to put them in a cheap facility instead of paying for a good one. The reality it's the same care home, same staff, same treatment just one is paid through savings and one is paid through government.

My parents don't want to sell their house and have made enquiries about what they can do and I was just looking some advice not the morality police.

Im sure anyone in this situation would of course look into all options.

It is very unfair that if a parent goes into a hospice with cancer then their savings and home are not touched but if they need into a care home for Dementia then the government expects people who have saved and worked hard to pay themselves yet people who haven't are taken care of.

My parents have worked hard and paid taxes all their life, why shouldn't they be taken care of in comparison to those who haven't?

Thank you to those who have made some actual suggestions and given advice and information.

That argument also extrapolates to in-patient NHS care.

Omg. I am astonished at how tone deaf you are 😅

As others have pointed out, you can "save" your inheritance by moving in and providing the care. I know, believe me, that this isn't always an option. At that point, they need to pay for their care.

A hospice provides end of life care, with high level nursing , pain control etc. It cannot be compared to a care home. In a hospice your stay would be for weeks normally, not the years someone is likely to be in a care home.