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AIBU?

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AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

1000 replies

Watermelonsuns · 21/01/2025 08:47

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
fiftiesmum · 22/01/2025 08:23

And the homes try their hardest to get residents onto direct debit in the hope you don't notice when the fees go up.
We got the letters every quarter from head office first three or four waffly paragraphs saying what improvements they had made and tucked in near the bottom there was something about the fees going up by 15%.

denhaag · 22/01/2025 09:05

fiftiesmum · 22/01/2025 08:23

And the homes try their hardest to get residents onto direct debit in the hope you don't notice when the fees go up.
We got the letters every quarter from head office first three or four waffly paragraphs saying what improvements they had made and tucked in near the bottom there was something about the fees going up by 15%.

Yup. I think they rely on some families not keeping track - the 'put Granny in a home' mentality.

Cosyblankets · 22/01/2025 09:23

Porcuporpoise · 22/01/2025 08:01

So why do you think it would have cost 50% more @Cosyblankets? Because it would have cost the real price of providing the care plus another bit to cover the shortfall in the council contracts, that's why. Councils can leverage a good deal but only whilst other people are covering their shortfall.

The contracts work in a similar way to tour operators buying flight seats and hotels. They buy a certain number.
You talk about the real cost of care. Carers are on NMW. so what's that about £12. The company were charging 26 an hour. It was a two person visit so 52 an hour. 4 times a day. So 200 a day. I know there is admin etc involved but this is not double for 2 carers. The hourly rate would be double but not the admin charge

north51 · 22/01/2025 10:05

OP you can't "protect the house", but what you can do is make sure your parents spend the money they've got on enjoying their final years. I don't mean something like equity release (or some dramatic change in lifestyle like gambling as mentioned in the charity advice link above which counts as depravation of assets!), but I do mean spending their pension on making their lives as enjoyable and easy as possible - do they have a cleaner, do they have a physio/personal trainer to help them keep fit and healthy, do they take taxis rather than waiting for the bus in the rain, do they treat you all to the odd family meal, do they keep the heating turned up. There is no point at this stage in life in making savings and cutting back. As some others have mentioned, do make sure they hold any savings in separate names. If it is more likely that one will need care than the other, then they can use mainly that person's savings for household extras. Unlike other benefits, the assets and income assessed are those of the person needing care, not the entire household, and if their partner is still alive the house won't be taken into account anyway. We know of couples living in £1mn+ houses where the husband is a higher rate tax payer, but only the wife's pittance of a pension is taken into account for her care home fees, so she contributes less than £100/month.

It is unfair that people who have frittered away all their money, then get care for free, but that's how our system works. There is also a lottery to the system - if you get dementia you pay, if you have a different long term health condition you may not. In such a lottery system, the govt should have stepped in to even things out across the population, but that means more tax and everyone thinks/hopes that they won't be the dementia case loser and so they don't want to pay more tax. Unfortunately, the new Labour govt instead of grasping this nettle and using their large majority to finally fix this, have kicked it into the long grass of another review when they could have just implemented the Dilnot review. Also though, if you're paying you have a choice, if the taxpayer is, you don't. And that isn't just important because of different standards of home but also location - they can place you in a care home anywhere in their region which may not be at all convenient for friends and relatives to visit.

There is a lesson here though for everyone. The time to downsize is in your 60s when you are fit enough and have the time to enjoy the capital you release. When you start getting doddery in your 70s/80s/90s, it's too late.

The other thing you can do before you need care is move to a home that is suitable for a live-in carer, or extend your home, or maintain your home in top notch condition so that it is easy to rent out and use the income to offset care home fees. We know of people who have done all these things and kept the family home safe for many years to be inherited by the children/grandchildren.

As more people see their assets disappearing into care home fees, there will be no incentive to save. This is the long term problem with the current system. Similarly the removal of tax breaks for pension savings will discourage people putting money into pensions, at the same time defined benefit pensions are disappearing (apart from in the public sector). In the future there won't be as many pensioners owning their own homes and enjoying large index-linked pensions. Then the chickens really will come home to roost.

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 14:48

JoyousGreyOrca · 22/01/2025 01:02

I plan to spend all or most of my money. I want to enjoy myself when I can.

Yes which is great if we knew when we were going to die.

Spending all your money by 80 and discovering you actually are still fit and well and living to 96 leaves you in a desperate situation. Very old and poor.

westisbest1982 · 22/01/2025 14:55

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 14:48

Yes which is great if we knew when we were going to die.

Spending all your money by 80 and discovering you actually are still fit and well and living to 96 leaves you in a desperate situation. Very old and poor.

Very old and poor, but living in a country (the U.K) where the welfare state will look after you, at least these days.

DrPrunesqualer · 22/01/2025 15:04

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 14:48

Yes which is great if we knew when we were going to die.

Spending all your money by 80 and discovering you actually are still fit and well and living to 96 leaves you in a desperate situation. Very old and poor.

At least @JoyousGreyOrca will have enjoyed herself with her money
rather than spending it on supplementing others.

DrPrunesqualer · 22/01/2025 15:18

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 21/01/2025 13:42

I think I will have that Porsche after all. I am nearly 70, and It's something I have always wanted. That wouldn't count as deprivation of assets, if I needed a care home in 10 years time, would it?

No
because you need something to transfer your goat in
and the goat has high standards 🐐😁

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 15:29

@westisbest1982

Very old and poor, but living in a country (the U.K) where the welfare state will look after you, at least these days.
Yeah you do you but I for one am very much convinced my life in old age will be immeasurably more pleasant if I have money and not living purely off the state. I'm pretty sure no one living off the state alone in old age is having a whale of a time. Heating/eating

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 15:31

@DrPrunesqualer

At least @JoyousGreyOrca will have enjoyed herself with her money
rather than spending it on supplementing others.
My point is most of us don't know when we are going to die. So planning to 'spend it all before I die is likely to leave many people with years left but no money. And being very old and very poor and living off the state where you can't afford to heat and eat is not something I would plan towards

Cansomeone · 22/01/2025 15:38

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 15:31

@DrPrunesqualer

At least @JoyousGreyOrca will have enjoyed herself with her money
rather than spending it on supplementing others.
My point is most of us don't know when we are going to die. So planning to 'spend it all before I die is likely to leave many people with years left but no money. And being very old and very poor and living off the state where you can't afford to heat and eat is not something I would plan towards

But you can enjoy your life and be responsible. As someone with young children you'll probably be buying a second hand car, holidaying somewhere cheap (if at all), shopping at Aldi and bargain shops. If you have a good pension and healthy savings why not get the new off the forecourt car, move to a nice bungalow with a nice garden, have that holiday to the Maldives... It's not about being reckless it's acknowledging you've worked for this money and for your retirement so stop scrimping and saving and enjoy life!

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 15:40

@Cansomeone
Oh absolutely. No one is suggesting otherwise. I'm responding to a suggestion that 'I'm going to spend all my money' as a strategy. Which I'm pointing out is not a great strategy as how does one plan to spend all one's money when they have no idea how long they are going to live

ThinWomansBrain · 22/01/2025 15:45

don't worry OP, assisted dying legislation may will go through soon, that might shorten the need for your parents to pay care home fees from what you clearly deem to be your money.

Cansomeone · 22/01/2025 15:45

chargeitup · 22/01/2025 15:40

@Cansomeone
Oh absolutely. No one is suggesting otherwise. I'm responding to a suggestion that 'I'm going to spend all my money' as a strategy. Which I'm pointing out is not a great strategy as how does one plan to spend all one's money when they have no idea how long they are going to live

If you're mortgage free and spend it all by 80/85 the idea is your pensions will see you through.

DrPrunesqualer · 22/01/2025 15:55

ThinWomansBrain · 22/01/2025 15:45

don't worry OP, assisted dying legislation may will go through soon, that might shorten the need for your parents to pay care home fees from what you clearly deem to be your money.

That’s a truly dreadful thing to say!

JoyousGreyOrca · 22/01/2025 15:56

Cansomeone · 22/01/2025 15:45

If you're mortgage free and spend it all by 80/85 the idea is your pensions will see you through.

The median age for women to die is 84. For most women there is no need for pensions to see you through

Cansomeone · 22/01/2025 15:57

JoyousGreyOrca · 22/01/2025 15:56

The median age for women to die is 84. For most women there is no need for pensions to see you through

Then spend with gay abandon

debauchedsloth · 22/01/2025 15:57

The absolute state of the OP's self interest!! My god.

Gloriia · 22/01/2025 16:05

debauchedsloth · 22/01/2025 15:57

The absolute state of the OP's self interest!! My god.

Why do you think homeowners should sell their assets to pay for care when renters get the same provision for free. How about if we say renters have to sell their cars and valuables to contribute would that be fair?

BoredZelda · 22/01/2025 16:07

Just pay for the care if you need to, don't be so grabby!!

Maximising your inheritance using the rules which are in place is not being grabby.

Cansomeone · 22/01/2025 16:08

Gloriia · 22/01/2025 16:05

Why do you think homeowners should sell their assets to pay for care when renters get the same provision for free. How about if we say renters have to sell their cars and valuables to contribute would that be fair?

Because someone has to pay for it! I'm not having my tax increased exponentially so you can inherit 500k or more

Gloriia · 22/01/2025 16:13

Cansomeone · 22/01/2025 16:08

Because someone has to pay for it! I'm not having my tax increased exponentially so you can inherit 500k or more

Who pays for hospital care and who pays for the social care from those who rent? We do, via tax. Therefore everyone's health and social care should be paid by tax. Selling our own belongings when other people get it for free is unjust to say the least.

Rosscameasdoody · 22/01/2025 16:14

CautiousLurker01 · 21/01/2025 17:14

think I’ll be sorting that out as our house is, well, worth a fortune, and I’d want my kids - and not a bereavement fueled late life crisis bimbo - to get enough to keep them secure. My eldest is ADHD/ASD with significant MH issues so may never have the security of a committed partner (hope to hell I am wrong), so I’d want to know she was set up. 🙏

If your DD is disabled and resident in your home full time, it cannot be sold for care fees. The rule applies to direct relatives of the person going into care - if they are over 60 or disabled then the house is exempt from the financial assessment. The caveat is that it is only the original house that is exempt. If the occupier downsizes or sells for any reason, then a percentage of the profit would become liable for care fees, depending on what percentage of the house the person needing care owns.

Paganpentacle · 22/01/2025 16:19

ComtesseDeSpair · 21/01/2025 09:05

But why should people who will not inherit, or who may never own their own home, or be able to put by lots of savings of their own pay more tax on their incomes to protect the big inheritances other people like the OP are set to receive? Taxation has a role in public services, but not so some people can keep inheritances at the expense of those without inheritances.

Edited

...and why should people who have worked hard all their lives and managed to buy property to pass onto their kids end up losing everything... when those that didnt bother, never worked .... have everything paid for?
I get you OP.
I'll be looking to sign the house over to my kids well in advance of care home fees.

Rosscameasdoody · 22/01/2025 16:20

BooneyBeautiful · 21/01/2025 17:24

I noticed that someone mentioned about dementia. For info, in these circumstances it is always best to apply for NHS Continuing Healthcare. It's not always easy to get, but definitely worth pursuing. Watch the film Care (BBC1 film 2018) starring Alison Steadman and Sheridan Smith.

In the majority of cases you won’t get NHS CHC if the only condition is dementia. CHC only applies if the person needs medical input - social care on its’ own doesn’t qualify. My mum has severe dementia. Needs full time supervision and care as she cannot undertake her own personal care or feed herself. She wanders about at night and is a fall risk. After a lengthy application process, and on appeal, we were denied CHC because her needs were for social care, not medical.

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