AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

[Watermelonsuns]

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

Absolutely
theres no benefit to ‘late life crisis bimbos’ or ‘fancy women’ in these very sewn up arrangements
as we make sensible arrangements for our own kids 🙂

Really? "received no benefits"? Never used the NHS, never received child benefit, used state education for the kids, been protected by the police, or fire service or the military? No benefit from the rule of law? Did they live on an impregnable fortress in the English Channel?

We all that know that life isn’t fair. Some of us live long healthy lives, some of us are fortunate with education/abilities/circumstance to have good, well paid careers. Some of us bought houses at a good time for the housing market.

None of us are entitled to have what someone else has, even if you’ve been really unfortunate in life. If your circumstances have allowed you to acquire assets, then those assets are what you should call on when need arises. DM is in exactly this situation having recently moved into residential care as she was unsafe overnight. The LA assessed her as being ok to return home with a carer package again, and if they were controlling the purse strings, that’s what she would have got (and ended up back in hospital again after another fall). She owns her house, so this means we have the choice to provide her with better care. Being in care doesn’t mean she won’t fall, but the risks and consequences are less and she won’t end up lying in the floor for 12 hours until her breakfast carer visit.

It’s scary to see how quickly the money disappears, but then that’s why my parents saved, to have security in their old age. They only inherited a nominal amount from their parents and I’m fine if that’s what happens with DM. I want her safe and comfortable.

Yes I don't know why more people aren't outraged by this.

We don't sell our assets to receive hospital care <yet>, so why on earth must we sell our assets to receive a place in a care home when we can't care for ourselves?

We pay taxes for health and social care! That should cover old age care too.

Why should people be able to live for free, especially when they have money?

There’s no way we (society) can afford it. DM had a care package of 4x a day visits commissioned through her LA, so at their rates. It was £1350 every four weeks, which is about the same as her entire years council tax after single person discount etc. Now she’s paying that per week in her home. Where on earth are councils supposed to get the money from to pay that?

Just to add, when the welfare state was set up, people died quickly after getting old and frail and not being able to manage very well in their home.

Now medical advances mean we keep people alive longer, in not great health and needing help, hence the explosion in demand for care. The current system was never designed with this situation in mind, so the only way I’ll get any degree of control about my care when I’m old is having as much money/assets as I can accumulate as I can see the current system lasting that long.

Yet 10s of billions is going to be spent on weight loss drugs, being over weight is in the vast majority of cases, a choice.

Getting old is not.

I understand contributions for housing &heating but Dementia is a medical condition, we are supposed to have a "Cradle to Grave" healthcare system.

We need an extra society wide social care insurance scheme and we also need to look at why care home fees are so high, 5* hotels are cheaper.... is this greed by the private sector, as they have been shown to do with childrens care costs.

An average home is 250 k so that would be all of the money for a lot of people

People did not always die quickly.
People go into care homes in the UK rarely live that long though.
In the past, instead of paid carers going into your home, family would do the caring. All of my relatives born about the 1920s generation, were looked after by family, except one who got dementia and went into a care home when she became violent.
But family would do the stuff like helping people get dressed, and giving them meals. It is why they quickly died if they needed state care, because by that stage they had really deteriorated.

My DM’s (dementia only) care home was very good, but was by no means the most expensive. Probably around a third to a half of the residents were council funded, but they all enjoyed exactly the same type of accommodation (ensuite rooms) and facilities. Obviously residents like my DM, who were self funded, were subsidising the others, but we had no problem with that.

@jasjas3008 weight loss drugs if they work will save the NHS money in the long run.

It's not just a question of lack of money to care for the increasing numbers of those who are elderly & frail. We also dont have enough people to do the work that is required.
We are being kept alive for longer & longer whilst fewer and fewer young people are willing or able to have children.

So what do you suggest? Kill the old people?

In my case… yes, actually. Had to go private for everything for our SEN kids from diagnostics, assessments education, medication and on-going care; and to get my DH’s illness diagnosed (missed by the NHS well man 50 plus test but picked up by a work BUPA); to get a diagnosis and support for recurrent miscarriages; to get my thyroid issues diagnosed and managed, to educate my kids when the state system failed them… but I should probably be grateful that I did actually get to deliver my kids with NHS support in the end. So yeah, MANY of us receive eff all back DIRECTLY in exchange for the six figure tax contributions we make and feel that care in our old age is the bare minimum we should expect after 60years of paying in. Oh, been burgled and got a crime reference number and no visit, no house fires so far… so not used those services either but they come out of council tax not PAYE as I understand it and we pay through the nose for those too.

Though you’ll be happy to know that, on the basis that we’ve taken next to nothing, that we’ve also planned our old age care and are not planning to depend on the state for that either. However, I’’ll be buggered if my InLaws aren’t entitled to it or that my kids miss out on financial security from the best possible inheritance arrangements if, for some unexpected reason, we have no choice but to rely on the state for old age care one day. So, have no fear. We’re still paying for several other people’s carehomes every year, plus a teacher and doctor’s salary. All good.

Yes, but the point about dementia is that unless the sufferer has other health conditions, the care needed is social, not medical. Help with washing, dressing, ‘toileting’, as they like to call it, maybe with eating and drinking, and general supervision, for when e.g. people are wandering about at night, or are distressed about something that’s all in their head, and need comfort/reassurance.

None of which require medical training.

Jeeze Louise I was just attempting to elucidate the problem.
Pretty shocked that you would jump to that😳

Quite often on MN, I discern a certain peevishness that boomer parents aren''t doing the decent thing by dying. After first providing childcare, of course.

I think it boils down to a clear cut thing that homeowners don't see why they have to sell their assets to pay for care when renters get it all paid for. Perhaps if there were new rules that renters had to sell their furniture and valuables to contribute to fees then people might see where we are coming from.

Taxes should cover care costs.

My dear old Ma had dementia. She was self funding but when she was in the early stages of dementia she made me promise she wouldn’t ever be put in a home. ‘Luckily’ due to her very poor mobility, she didn’t wander off, or put herself in dangerous situations. I found brilliant private carers, that cost £1,000 a week to give her excellent cover at home, and I covered any gaps in care. I look back with a clear conscience that I did my best for her. Yes it cost a lot of money, her money, but who cares about her money? It was spent on her. As it should have been.

when I look at people who have to depend on council paid carers, and see them having a 10-15 minute visit four times a day, and being put to bed sometimes at 5.30 at night I could weep. Who would ever want that, when they could pay for kind and loving care?

What would you have done if she didn't have this income or savings?

Sofar as deprivation of assets goes, there is no such thing as the seven year rule.

System in Ireland is amazing - look at for deal scheme - my Nana went in a home we got fair deal - you don’t pay while you are in there but the government take a percentage once the house sale goes through when you die - it’s something like 7.5% per year and it’s capped at 3 years.

the system here seems unfair - your better off selling your house before you get too old apeman your money and going into a home then for free

So you want the taxpayer to pay for your DP to live in a council care home rather than a superior private home (that they could afford but which you want to deprive them of ) because you want to inherit their money
YABU !!

My dad was in a care home, he paid top whack for a few years, and then his savings went under £20k, so then we were allowed council help.

They didn’t pay the whole amount per month but they put towards it, so the monthly bill was a couple of hundred cheaper I think. Dad passed away a few months later, so his home didn’t have to be sold.

He actually had another £11k savings in an account we didn’t know about until he died, so to be honest, I can’t remember if they even checked when i said his savings were going down fast, and will be going under 20k soon. Maybe they checked his usual account but they didn’t check anything else, or maybe they just took my word for it.

His care home was quite nice actually, as it was a private one, would’ve not been this standard if council funded.