Page 11 | AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

Watermelonsuns · 2025-01-21T08:47:47+00:00

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy. AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years? Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

westisbest1982 · 21/01/2025 12:55

SomethingUniqueThisTime · 21/01/2025 12:41

The best solution without being caught by deprivation of assets or evading death duties, is to consider renting out their home when they need residential care.

You are so naive.

GivingitToGod · 21/01/2025 12:56

Watermelonsuns · 21/01/2025 12:16

Exactly, I've done my best to read through the responses but I think people are confused that I want money to put them in a cheap facility instead of paying for a good one. The reality it's the same care home, same staff, same treatment just one is paid through savings and one is paid through government.

My parents don't want to sell their house and have made enquiries about what they can do and I was just looking some advice not the morality police.

Im sure anyone in this situation would of course look into all options.

It is very unfair that if a parent goes into a hospice with cancer then their savings and home are not touched but if they need into a care home for Dementia then the government expects people who have saved and worked hard to pay themselves yet people who haven't are taken care of.

My parents have worked hard and paid taxes all their life, why shouldn't they be taken care of in comparison to those who haven't?

Thank you to those who have made some actual suggestions and given advice and information.

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Spot on!

Pilgrimgirl · 21/01/2025 12:56

I'm interested to know who are these people who haven't "worked hard" all their lives as opposed to those who have, are we talking about disabled people, people who are mentally ill, those who have lost their job or couldn't work through I'll health, those who for one reason or another haven't been able to buy their own property or amasss a large amount of savings, people who have lived in rented accommodation and haven't got a property to sell to pay care home fees, just exactly who is OP talking about here?

Thegoatliesdownonbroadway · 21/01/2025 12:56

MzHz · 21/01/2025 12:54

@Watermelonsuns the government expects people who have saved and worked hard to pay themselves yet people who haven't are taken care of.
My parents have worked hard and paid taxes all their life, why shouldn't they be taken care of in comparison to those who haven't?

erm, there are a LOT of people who have worked a DAMN site harder than your parents all their lives but were low paid so they have little to show for it. They too have paid taxes ,NI etc. Is it only HARD work when you have savings? own your own home?

People who need help are cared for if they don't have the money to care for themselves. people who can fund, should fund.

Why not apply the same the NHS as well? Those that can afford to pay should pay?

IWillAlwaysBeinaClubWithYouin1973 · 21/01/2025 12:56

I'm very much with what @Gloriia said at 12.05 (OP subsequently quoted this) - if you have a £200-£400k house (for example), you are not going to see the benefit of a better care home, I think people's understanding of care facilities is really poor - either that or many posters here have parents with £multi million houses that might buy them a better place? But then that money will still run out really quickly. I think @Watermelonsuns is just being sensible looking at all the options.

thepariscrimefiles · 21/01/2025 12:57

Watermelonsuns · 21/01/2025 12:16

Exactly, I've done my best to read through the responses but I think people are confused that I want money to put them in a cheap facility instead of paying for a good one. The reality it's the same care home, same staff, same treatment just one is paid through savings and one is paid through government.

My parents don't want to sell their house and have made enquiries about what they can do and I was just looking some advice not the morality police.

Im sure anyone in this situation would of course look into all options.

It is very unfair that if a parent goes into a hospice with cancer then their savings and home are not touched but if they need into a care home for Dementia then the government expects people who have saved and worked hard to pay themselves yet people who haven't are taken care of.

My parents have worked hard and paid taxes all their life, why shouldn't they be taken care of in comparison to those who haven't?

Thank you to those who have made some actual suggestions and given advice and information.

Show quote history

If someone with dementia gets cancer, they would also be eligible to go into a hospice and not pay fees. Someone with end stage terminal cancer will be in the hospice for a very limited period of time.

Someone with dementia could need care for years.

Free care homes for everyone who needs them, regardless of income and assets, would absolutely bankrupt the country. No-one is willing to pay more tax or National Insurance to fund anything like this. A very modest proposal in Theresa May's manifesto (the so called 'dementia tax') nearly lost her the election against Jeremy Corbyn.

Your parents using their money to pay for the best quality care only disadvantages you, as it will reduce or could even wipe out your inheritance. Obviously your parents will want you to receive their assets after they die, but you are looking for loopholes and scheme out of self-interest.

Karmacode · 21/01/2025 12:59

ExtraOnions · 21/01/2025 09:00

That would be called “deprivation of assets” and is a criminal offence.

There has to be 7 years between the assets being transferred, and the assets being assessed for care home fees.

We don’t pay any care home fees for mum, as another relative, over the age of 60, had lived there all his life.

This. I work in elderly social care and there's no way round it. I've heard of similar cases being pursued through the court system. Financial assessments are very thorough and it isn't something I'd worth risking.

jasjas3008 · 21/01/2025 12:59

DinosaurMunch · 21/01/2025 12:46

7 year rule only applies to inheritance, not care home fees.
They may look back longer than 7 years for care fees

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Very true, Councils can go back as far as they like if they suspect the reason for the trust or gift, even if rent paid, was to avoid care home fees.

Now your parents are elderly, its too late to avoid the fees, should they need that sort of care.

IWillAlwaysBeinaClubWithYouin1973 · 21/01/2025 13:01

"My parents have worked hard and paid taxes all their life, why shouldn't they be taken care of in comparison to those who haven't?"

Yes sorry you've lost me there OP - as @MzHz asks - who are the people not working hard? You mean a cleaner on minimum wage who would qualify for funded care, or someone who inherited wealth or got rick quick somehow and didn't work hard but still has plenty of cash? Or as @MzHz asks - the disabled? Who are the undeserving poor (or rich!)?

Mrsbloggz · 21/01/2025 13:01

@Watermelonsuns
It's too late now. If they wanted to protect their wealth your parents should have been strategic and started putting measures in place decades ago.

Tubetrain · 21/01/2025 13:02

Watermelonsuns · 21/01/2025 12:16

Exactly, I've done my best to read through the responses but I think people are confused that I want money to put them in a cheap facility instead of paying for a good one. The reality it's the same care home, same staff, same treatment just one is paid through savings and one is paid through government.

My parents don't want to sell their house and have made enquiries about what they can do and I was just looking some advice not the morality police.

Im sure anyone in this situation would of course look into all options.

It is very unfair that if a parent goes into a hospice with cancer then their savings and home are not touched but if they need into a care home for Dementia then the government expects people who have saved and worked hard to pay themselves yet people who haven't are taken care of.

My parents have worked hard and paid taxes all their life, why shouldn't they be taken care of in comparison to those who haven't?

Thank you to those who have made some actual suggestions and given advice and information.

Show quote history

No you don't. The care home my MIL was in was lovely. Council wouldn't pay for it. The ones that the council would have paid for were awful. And I see the difference when I go into them for work. Yes, people with some money who are trying to cut corners might pay to go into the crappy ones too. But if you have money you have choice.

ClairDeLaLune · 21/01/2025 13:03

So who do you think should pay for their care home fees? Other taxpayers? Yeah that’d be fair.

You can’t avoid the fees by giving away property. It’s deliberate deprivation of assets and the council can demand the money back. You might find some dodgy solicitor telling you that you can put the property in trust and that would avoid fees but that wouldn’t work either.

Just pay up, like everyone else has to do.

fiftiesmum · 21/01/2025 13:04

shrunkenhead · 21/01/2025 12:42

Seemingly an unpopular opinion here but I'm with OP. My parents have every intention of passing their house down to me and my brother, that's how it used to work. I raised the point of them possibly needing care at some point and they assume I'll give up my life/work/family move 500 miles and provide that for them. I'm guessing this is the only way if you want to keep the house and they want you to keep the house.
Strangely enough the same level of care isn't expected of my brother although he lives just 5 miles away from them.
I think, OP, we're living in the past where you could afford a home on one wage, women could afford to stay at home and raise kids and look after elderly rellies etc - this isn't possible today.
Do I give up my life, work, family, friends and move 500 miles away from my home to tend to elderly parents so they get to hand their house over to me and my brother when they're gone or do I tell them to sell the house to pay for their care fees?! Either way I lose out. It's a different world.
My late gran cared for her MIL in her final years and God knows how she did it, she was resentful of the expectation and the personal care was just beyond her (as it would be for most of us).
I dint know the answer, OP, but inheritance isn't what it used to be.

So the choice is you give up your life to care for your parents and eventually you and your brother have a full inheritance or their property is sold and you and your brother share a much reduced inheritance.
I know what I would do (unless you really want to move 500 miles to care for them)

We were in a similar position (although I did live close to DM) mum went into a care home near us but DSis wanted her to stay in her home but was not prepared to help. She rarely visited but was not best pleased as the house was sold to pay fees and there wasn't much left when she died (apart from my health and sanity as we all know that caring for the very elderly is not easy)

Ginmonkeyagain · 21/01/2025 13:04

My grandad had a stroke and got free high dependency care for three months, in which time franky he was expected to die.

He did not die and even recovered somewhat so was moved to a care home and paid fees for the next 2 years. He rented his home (he was a tenant famer all his life) but owned a piece of land he had bought to pass on to his children. It was sold to fund his care and we would not have had it any other way.

I don't think my grandad worked any more or less hard than people who have benefited from runaway house price inflation over the last few decades.

Inmydreams88 · 21/01/2025 13:04

Of course deep down we all want to to this, right? But we can’t. If everyone did this then the social care would implode, it’s already at rock bottom. If your parents have a house then it’s unfortunate but it should be sold to pay for their care. Lots of people never go into a care home anyway, so it might not even be an issue.

skyeisthelimit · 21/01/2025 13:04

OP, a lot of people do this and you should get proper legal advice before you do anything.

At the very least, your parents should each own their share of the property so that the fees can only be attached to half of the property if one of them goes into a home.

AnonymousBleep · 21/01/2025 13:05

thepariscrimefiles · 21/01/2025 12:57

If someone with dementia gets cancer, they would also be eligible to go into a hospice and not pay fees. Someone with end stage terminal cancer will be in the hospice for a very limited period of time.

Someone with dementia could need care for years.

Free care homes for everyone who needs them, regardless of income and assets, would absolutely bankrupt the country. No-one is willing to pay more tax or National Insurance to fund anything like this. A very modest proposal in Theresa May's manifesto (the so called 'dementia tax') nearly lost her the election against Jeremy Corbyn.

Your parents using their money to pay for the best quality care only disadvantages you, as it will reduce or could even wipe out your inheritance. Obviously your parents will want you to receive their assets after they die, but you are looking for loopholes and scheme out of self-interest.

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Yep, this.

I think a lot of people just have to accept that they won't inherit because any money their parents have will be used up in care home fees. There's no way round this. It's a direct result of people in the West living for much, much longer than they ever have in history.

OP, YABU. Everyone works hard and pays taxes. It doesn't entitle you to special treatment, unfortunately.

BasiliskStare · 21/01/2025 13:06

"You can put it into a trust of some sort, my aunty did." - I think there are differing views as to whether this kind of financial product works . My Dsis is thinking f it & I've advised she gets a second opinion form a solicitor experienced in trusts

CityofOliveBranch · 21/01/2025 13:06

I’m shocked that even a handful of replies on here are in support of the OP. And also that OP has come back and doubled-down on thinking there is nothing wrong here - even with a ridiculous argument about comparing this scenario to hospice care.

My own DF spent several months last year in a lovely care home costing about 7.5k per month. He eventually died of secondary rectal cancer, and the end-of-life care he received was the best anyone could hope for. He was offered a transfer to hospice/hospital in his final days, but he declined. He was in the best place, and we as a family supported this.

The same could happen to my DM. Plus my own DC know that my property may have to fund care for me one day, and they totally support this. I hope not, but everyone is living longer these days.

DrPrunesqualer · 21/01/2025 13:07

Putting a property in your name OP or transferring funds into your account is deprivation of assets. If this is done 7 years before care is needed then whilst the council may ask questions ( they do btw) there’s nothing they can do.

Of note
If the property is put in your name when it’s sold you will have CGTax to pay as it’s your second property and you’re not living in it.
HMRC will look at ownership and again there may be questions to answer re transfer of ownership and stamp duty ( second property again ). Nothing they can do really if it’s over 7years but I don’t know how stamp duty works so worth asking a tax accountant.

Others have commented on the potential difficulty and choice finding a home when it’s purely council funded which I agree with.
However when I looked for my MIL, who funded her own care, there wasn't much choice either way and out of 30 residents only her and one other were self funded.
If your parents do self fund watch out for extras. We bought a chair apparently needed by my MIL to make it easier to get up and down but every time we visited someone else was sat in it and we were told they needed it too! It cost a few thousand.
Eventually We had it moved to her room…….cheeky so and so’s !

Iwishicouldflyhigh · 21/01/2025 13:07

Blondiebeachbabe · 21/01/2025 12:42

Whilst this sounds fine and dandy, sometimes a care home, with proper facilities is the only reasonable option. Are you really going to turn a section of your house into a hospital type facility, and if they are not mobile, install equipment for lifting, like a hoist etc, and then pay ££££ for care visits? What happens overnight, when they are screaming because they don't know who they are, or where they are? Are you able to get up and tend to them, multiple times a night, for years and years and years? What about if you want to go on holiday? What then? What if they are mobile and get up at 3am, and leave the house to "go shopping" in their nightie, or light up a fag and forget they have done so and it starts a fire, or they switch the gas on? My Nan did all of these things.

What we need to address, is WHY care homes are so ridiculously expensive. If the Op put her parents into a care home, the bill would be over £12,000 a month. That's so fucking unreasonable, and that's why Op and plenty of other people try to avoid this route at all costs. If the cost was more in tune with the service that was actually being delivered, maybe it wouldn't stick in the craw quite so much!

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Did you miss the bit in my post where I said that dementia/Alzheimer’s are a different story?

I nursed my dad at home through a brain tumour, I worked in a care home, I know the reality.

but the OPs mum doesn’t sound like she needs a high level of care and in that situation, I’d do as I said previously.

you don’t need an equivalent hospital wing….even with a high level of care…..my dad needed a hoist and carers 4 times a day.

we managed it in our home because of our circumstances, which are not the same fir everyone.

which is why I’m referring to me and mine.

whowhatwerewhy · 21/01/2025 13:08

You could ask your parents to leave there half of the estate to you . Should one of them die that half can't be used for care fees .

MidnightPatrol · 21/01/2025 13:08

Tubetrain · 21/01/2025 13:02

No you don't. The care home my MIL was in was lovely. Council wouldn't pay for it. The ones that the council would have paid for were awful. And I see the difference when I go into them for work. Yes, people with some money who are trying to cut corners might pay to go into the crappy ones too. But if you have money you have choice.

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My experience also - we paid for a far better home.

And - the average life expectancy once in a home is <3 years, so £2-400k would cover it.

MzHz · 21/01/2025 13:09

we're born with nothing, we die with nothing. You can't take it with you.

If you need care in your advanced years and have the means to fund it, you should. Not one of us has any obligation to the next generation when it comes to inheritance. its a bonus if you can, but you must pay for your needs first if you are able to. All that 'hard work' you talk of has financed a lifestyle that your parents wanted to live, and there is money left over and assets to cover any care costs they need. People who get help, those on minimum wage or low paid, those disabled, or carers for others, or those just fucked over in life don't live 'well' their entire lives and still have little to show for it, they need help? they get help.

@Watermelonsuns i suggest you learn from this friend's experience and make sure that you put in the work now to cover any care needs you may have. What we have in place now will not get any 'kinder' on those who can afford to fund their care.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 21/01/2025 13:09

All very well, unless they need 24/7 care (someone on hand ALL day, ALL night) 365 days a year, which is common enough with dementia.

And live-in care, which we once looked into for an aunt of dh (no dementia, but needing help day and night, meaning more than one on shifts, would have worked out more expensive than a reasonably nice care home.