AIBU to wonder why English teachers don't fight Maths teachers?

[GRex]

Every week we get the primary maths homework with questions like:
"What number is 41 less than 54?"

It's like nails down my psychological blackboard. How do the teachers responsible for the English programme cope? Why does nobody take the battle forward for fewer? What is so scary about the maths teachers that none of the rest stand and fight this out for the greater good?

Ooh, who would win though? I mean, you'd think the PE teachers but I reckon chemistry teachers would win if subject-specific props were allowed - a cloud of sulphur dioxide and job done.

The physics teacher might be better at long-range projectiles though.

Because "less than" and "greater than" are actual mathematical terms, but "fewer than" isn't?
(But as a scientist I'm probably biased and would be cheering on the maths teachers 😂)

The PE teachers would referee and probably eat the refreshments.

I hope you feel suitably embarrassed by your ignorance now!

I'm a maths dunce so I can't comment on the technical correctness of the wording of the question, as you have done. But it does seem unecessarily obscure and is badly written.

I agree the wording is a bit clunky and unnatural. But that's part of the point: to encourage children to recognise that the same mathematical ideas can be expressed in different (and sometimes obscure or inelegant) ways. If they wanted to convey the required mathematical operation in an optimally clear and concise manner they'd just write "54 - 41".

Why don't they just write 54 - 41 = ? then. Is it because they are more interested in finding out if you can work out what they are asking for rather than 'the answer'?

The thing about maths is that, ultimately, you can pretty much get rid of words and use a precise language of symbols. However, you need to scaffold pupils into getting there. It is also important to learn to parameterise problems in Science: map words to soluble equations.

Young pupils will need to learn the ‘less than’ and ‘more than’ symbols, so the language used in that problem would map to those symbols (although it actually means minus in that context).

I think worrying about whether better vocabulary can be used in an English sense kind of misses the point.

Would physics teachers like doctors to ask you your mass rather than your weight? Well, yes they would, but they accept that pupils have to learn context as well! It is also what some linguists call ‘register’, a poem shouldn’t read like a washing machine instruction manual and vice versa.

Wait until you hear about Fact Families and Number Bonds! Then they switch up a "Number Bond" into "Complements to 10"...
Most of DS's maths confusion is resolved by helping him translate the question: "That one is asking how many do you need to add to 17 make 20?" "Oh, so 3 then?", "Yes".

That's a really important skill though, because aside from the academic training pov, it's how the maths problems we meet in real life are posed.

I have £20 but the top I want is £25, how much do I need to save.

I am so desperate now for teacher fight club to establish who would be the Ultimate Winner!

Absolutely. It's just a bit alien because when I was young we learned the basic maths functions and then how they all could be applied... but now they teach kids every application for playing around with 30 = 6 + 4 + 20, but they haven't done the basics of a 3 times table yet (whatever that will be called).

I feel a Bigger Silly, yes!

Everyone knows it'll be the DT teachers surely, they have loads of tools to use as weapons as well as bits of wood lying around to make basic trebuchets.

Just tell them there's free pizza in the staffroom and five deliveries from KCS in Reception without names on, so staff can help themselves to whatever they need for their department.

I'll have a tenner on PE heading for the Domino's delivery and a death match between History and RE for the pretty pink box files.

See I love all that stuff! I've been really impressed with my 6yo's numeracy - she can work out surprisingly complicated calculations (including basic multiplication) because all the number bond stuff has given her a really firm grasp on number order.

I wish mine was like yours, @BarbaraHoward, she’s in Y6 and hopelessly confused! I’ve had to break out old school type learning at home to get her up to speed as the new style just muddled her. Luckily I can just about manage the maths at her level!

Ah that's tough. I guess it's like phonics - works better across a population but there'll always be some who get on better with sight reading (if that's what it was called!).

Exactly, phonics was a disaster for her! It seems that the new methods are not great for autistic children alas (of which she is one)

In a way.. yes.

It's to check you understand the vocabulary (commonly) used and the concepts. Maths isn't just simple arithmetic.

DH said when he was in primary school, he'd be presented with sums but the teacher did not properly explain what the + and - symbols signified. Maybe she used words such as 'plus' and 'minus' but not 'everyday' English, so they were a mystery to him for a while.

I'm too busy marking to fight maths teachers.

Maths is maths, let's not confuse it further with convoluted ways to do sums. It's a subject many of us couldn't teach as you need to know the facts and formulas so trust them to get on with it. Xx

Frit.

Come on, if you think you're 'ard enough.

Bike sheds. Break tomorrow. The SLT never go down there.