Disciplining toddler

[Shoutymum25]

I have a 2 (nearly 3) year old and I’m worried that I’m being too strict/harsh with him and wanted opinions on the best way to manage his behaviour.

He’s a very sweet little boy. He’s kind and loving, very caring towards other people and generally very bright, funny and sociable.
He’s also incredibly independent, stubborn and brave which is starting to cause some issues with him doing things that are dangerous even when he’s been told not to.
This evening this came to a head when he took off his seatbelt in the car when I was driving on the motorway.
I shouted at him a lot and the poor kid was crying and saying ‘Mummy please don’t shout anymore. I want to be good. I never do it again’. I don’t want to shout at him but it honestly seems to be the only thing that really works.
Whilst he understands if you explain things to him he gets carried away and forgets when he’s excited/bored. I honestly think that he means it when he says ‘I want to be good’ (he’s generally very helpful and tries hard to do things if he’s asked nicely), but it only really sinks in if he’s been shouted at and he’s really upset.

I have started to shout at him occasionally if he does something really naughty/dangerous after he’s repeatedly been told not to. This includes:

• Riding away on his scooter/bike and refusing to come back (obviously they get taken away too).
• Pulling the emergency cord in a public toilet
• Trying to leave the house in the night to go to the park (he found and climbed on a stool to try and undo the latch)
• Trying to feed/pick up his baby sister (she’s only 6 months old)
• Running away in public places
• Pushing chairs around to try and climb up to the kitchen counters to make his own drinks/snacks.

What he does isn’t malicious, but he gets very over-excited and also thinks he’s a lot more independent than he actually is (he frequently tells me that he’s a man now and that he doesn’t need help from mummy and daddy).

Has anyone had success with any techniques that don’t involve shouting? And AIBU to shout at him in these circumstances?
I hate upsetting him but I also need him to stop doing these things because they’re dangerous and I don’t want him to get badly hurt (it’s one thing to allow him to have natural consequences when he’s a bit cold because he refused to put on a coat, but it doesn’t really work for things like wearing a seatbelt because the potential consequences are too serious and also not consistent).

I don’t think you were unreasonable with the seatbelt - that’s dangerous and you are trying to protect him from harm. You can’t gentle parent that situation.

All totally normal behaviour from him and totally normal to completely lose your shit in a life or death scenario. Id rather shout once and they never do it again than a toddler repeatedly take their seat belt off on the motorway. Once out the car though big cuddle and apologise for shouting, and a calm conversation about safety.

I think you are right to keep your most stern technique for very serious situations tbh

It’s ok to shout in that situation! Nothing else to be done.

The trying to get out in the night though- how was he able to do this? Can he get out of his room undetected? No stairgate?

The emergency cord on the toilet is going to be very tempting at that age and they really struggle with impulse control- same as the alarms on lifts etc which are always at the perfect t height to be pressed 🙈 and that can be confusing for them if they’re allowed to push other buttons.

Running away in public places- don’t give him the chance until he’s older- use reins, either backpack ones or some where’s he’s tethered to you.

I would invest in one of those toddler tower things and LET him make drinks and snacks (with supervision only). He’s trying to be more independent- he’s clearly telling you he wants to do more for himself- and there are safe ways to manage this for him.

Acquire a pair of reins and use them and tell him unless he can promise to walk nicely next to you and prove to you that he can do so you will use them every time you go out as otherwise you cannot keep him safe.
Yelling about the seatbelt, good, in that very particular scenario I too have scared the daylights out of my child because of the dangers it presents.
As pp suggests a tower for the kitchen so he's not a risk to himself and can still do stuff in the kitchen. Get a bolt for the top of the front door.
It doesn't sound like he's being intentionally naughty more trying to be very grown up so accommodate where you can and it might ease off in the other areas where you can't.

We live in a bungalow so there’s no stair gate (and he can climb over them even if we had one just on the door). He’d been in his bed for about 6 months and never even tried to leave the room without calling us before. We have a monitor in his room but he wasn’t making much noise so it didn’t alert.
He can’t actually unlock the front door because he doesn’t know where the key is, but I don’t really want him getting up at 3am to try!

We do have the same issue with lift buttons 🤦🏻‍♀️. I was more forgiving when he pulled the cord, although I did get a bit cross because he had been repeatedly asked not to pull it and it was unfair on the man who had to come and check we were ok (I was changing his baby sister when he did it and couldn’t grab him in time because he wasn’t within arms reach and she likes to roll).

Reins are a good idea, I might try them again (I have some but he just sat down and refused to move when I put them on). He’s very good at walking sensibly 99% of the time so I think I was probably more cross with myself for being complacent and not holding onto him.

We have a toddler tower and he does a lot of things himself (supervised). He just doesn’t want to wait if I’m in the middle of doing something else and he thinks that he can do it alone and unsupervised. I probably need to do a better job of making it clear what the boundaries are. We spend a lot of time encouraging him to be independent and I think sometimes we maybe go a bit too far and he doesn’t realize the limits of his own capabilities.

Thank you, typing that out made me realize where some of the problems lie. I think because he is quite grown up for his age I sometimes forget that he is still little and probably needs very clear boundaries to his independence and things in place to stop him from getting himself into trouble.

I agree. My DD went through a stage of undoing her car seat harness and it's the one time I've properly lost my shit over something. It was on the motorway. Probably wouldn't win a parenting award but she stopped doing it.

The only other thing I wonder about is have people been saying 'you're the big boy' or similar in relation to his baby sister? Which is then pushing him into being 'more grown up' - might be completely off the mark here!
Today sounds very scary, I hope you're ok!

I think you’re right. Most of the time he’s not trying to be naughty, he desperately wants to be grown-up and he’s slightly over confident in his abilities and also very curious and gets a bit carried away.

Most of my friends have slightly more cautious children and so it’s a bit of a challenge to know how much to let him have his independence, and I don’t always judge it right. On reflection some of these situations probably could have been avoided if I’d done things slightly differently.

Nope when it comes to safety you need to cone down like a ton of bricks. You did the right thing.

I think it sounds like you’ve got the right approach, it’s great that you’re encouraging confidence. He will learn to move within his capabilities (well, most of the time. My three year old leapt off the ledge of fireman’s pole in the playground today, thankfully I was there to catch him thinking he was just going to shimmy down a pole, not fly into thin air)

I would outline boundaries and expectations clearly to him but don’t go into detail. It’s very tempting when they are curious and clever but we overestimate their understanding sometimes and the amount of information they can process.

Obviously situations like the seatbelt thing it’s absolutely fine to come down hard on as he must know never to do it. some of the other things I’d try and be a bit more understanding about as they are normal boundary pushing. It’s very tempting for them to see how far things can be tested.

Mine does a lot of soft play and trampoline and has joined a gymnastics free-play class which all give him an outlet into being a bit of a daredevil and chucking himself about within safer confines.

Give him loads of opportunities to be "grown up" - pan and brush to sweep the floor, blunt knife to cut soft fruit, tidying toys, all kinds of age appropriate little tasks. It sounds like he will thrive given little jobs to do. My 3 year old absolutely loves knowing he's been genuinely helpful. It doesn't matter how long it takes or if he hasn't done the best job.
Other things gently explain he's not quite ready for but that you will tell him as soon as he is.

Thank you!
That’s great advice and works really well with him, he loves helping and 95% of the time he’ll happily potter around the house ‘cleaning’ with a wetwipe or sit with his baby sister and ‘make her happy’ (mostly showing her his paw patrol dogs and explaining who they are and what they do- luckily she loves his attention).
He’s great at helping me cook or do the shopping (even if it takes forever!)

His main issue is that the other 5% of the time he let’s his curiosity get the better of him (even when he knows he’s not allowed to do something) or he wants to do something by himself.
He is only 2 so it’s understandable but I did feel awful for shouting at him. It does seem to have worked though and every time we’ve got in the car since he’s announced ‘I not take my seatbelt off. Only mummies and daddies are allowed to take seatbelts off. I keep it in my brain memory to no take off the seatbelt. It’s for safety’.

I love the wording of explaining that he’s not quite old enough to do some things by himself yet and I’ll let him know when he’s big enough. I think I also just need to be aware that he doesn’t intrinsically know what those things are (even if it seems obvious to me) and also that he sometimes needs to be reminded of the rules before he does something wrong, especially if it’s something very tempting.

I really appreciate the reassurance that sometimes a little shout is ok or the most appropriate thing to do (we did discuss it afterwards and I explained why it was so bad).

You’re definitely right about sometimes I overexplain things or over complicate it (especially because he keeps asking ‘why’). He’s big for his age and quite independent/articulate so it’s easy to forget that he’s only 2.5 and can’t process and retain that much information. I’ll definitely focus on just delivering the key message!

It sounds like we have very similar children. He absolutely loves things like gymnastics, swimming and trampolining and it definitely does help.

I have a boy like yours. We used to call him Mr Independent when he was a toddler. He did lots of things you describe. I would say you are going down a very slippery road with shouting. My son is now a teenager and taller than me. If I was in the habit of shouting we would now have shouting matches every day like I used to have with my mum when I was a teenager. I set up myself a goal to be different to my mum and I am very glad that I did. He is still a very stroppy teen despite being very kind-hearted and considerate, especially to his friends. However we don't shout at each other which is quite amazing considerinng we are both hot-tempered by nature. You might consider keeping a journal to see common scenarios where you shout and then try to avoid this situations altogether

I know shouting isn’t ideal, obviously, but I do think that if you’re generally fairly calm, that shouting when they’re doing something dangerous is both pretty unavoidable and also more effective than explaining calmly like you might do if it was something else. I had the same situation with my 3 year old un doing her seat belt- first I knew of it was when I braked (thankfully not too hard), and she came tumbling into the front. It was a shock, and I shouted, and she cried. I did then later talk to her about it, and explained I hadn’t wanted to upset her- but explained why, and how dangerous that was. But I think it was my natural reaction in the moment that really struck home with her that she absolutely must not do that (and she hasn’t since). I honestly think even if someone forced themselves to stay calm and said ‘Oh no darling, you mustn’t unbuckle your seatbelt, it’s dangerous’- it wouldn’t have the necessary impact to impress upon them how dangerous it is. I think these days we are so careful to never show a negative emotion to kids, and I think that’s crazy- obviously we need to try and be patient and kind, but they also need to know when they’ve done something wrong, or upset someone; or annoyed someone.

That’s a really good point, I’m so caught up in toddler life that I hadn’t really considered how it’ll impact on how we interact in 10 years time.
How did you manage with situations that can’t be avoided? We need to go in the car to get places (and visiting my in-laws requires a motorway drive), and obviously he does have to wear his seat belt.
Also, this might be a stupid question but how did he learn not to do things if you just avoided the situation?

I’m keen for tips because I definitely don’t want to be having shouting matches with a teenager!

Sometimes it’s reasonable to shout in my opinion. If the message doesn’t get through any other way and your child CAN understand what you’re asking of them, they’re just being defiant.

it IS totally normal for a 2 year old to push boundaries though and you just have to push through it.

That’s a good point, I try to stay calm and avoid shouting when it’s minor annoyances (mostly successfully 😂). But when it’s really dangerous or urgent my natural reaction is to shout.
I think you’re probably right that it’s probably good for their emotional development to see normal reactions to their behaviour. It’s such a fine balance isn’t it. I don’t want him to feel responsible for my feelings or traumatize him by being too angry (or get into a shouty argument), but I do want him to understand in a safe environment that other people have feelings and he has done something that upsets me or makes me angry.

When my son was at the nursery I caught myself shouting a lot in the mornings because he was a dawdler and we often late late. My solution was to start going downstairs 10 minutes earlier. Once we were out of the house we were fine. Shouting at my son to be quicker was a pointless waste of my time and energy and a sure way to create bad vibes first thing in the morning. (He is still a dawdler, by the way).

Just to be clear, if I saw my toddler scooting towards a busy road, I would shout, but in panic. Even my dog understood he had to stop and pause and wait for me to catch up on one occasion he accidentally escaped from the lead. Shouting at a toddler for releasing the seatbelt is a silly waste of energy too, imo. Firstly, he can't fully understand implications. Secondly, he probably can't redo the belt himself so you still needed to stop which delayed seeing his grandparents. Thirdly, he probably had a good reason to undo the belt (in his view) -he might have simple been too hot etc.

I am not going to pretend I am a saint and I never, ever shout. However, I last lost my temper 2 years ago. I reflected on it and I apologised.

We do a lot of things in life out of habit. Once you are get into a habit of having a respectful conversation with your child, you are not going to regret it.

For example, my friend who comes from a country where smacking is an acceptable and even approved form of child discipline described a situation when a young child was repeatedly pushing an even younger child under water despite a few warnings. A dad gave this child a smack and the matter was solved.

I pointed out to my friend, that if the said dad simply told the said child to stay out of the swimming pool for the rest of the day, the child would have learnt a lesson just the same. My friend agreed.

The trouble with this approach is then the dad would have probably been forced to entertain his child more since the child would have been prevented from playing with a group of his friends in the swimming pool.

Incidentally, the rates of violence against women and children in my friends' country are much, much higher compared to the UK.

I am not saying, shouting is the same as smacking. However, both approaches come out of anger and annoyance and these are not good emotions you want to teach your child

"Pushing chairs around to try and climb up to the kitchen counters to make his own drinks/snacks"

He's getting to the age where he can start helping and having the independence of his own snack making. Can he do some more age appropriate helping? Choosing what to put on his plate, cutting with a toddler knife? Adding ingredients, stirring etc.

We have a learning tower and he does get to help with his own snack. He gets crackers out the cupboard for me, chooses what he wants, and can do things like cut up fruit/cheese with a kid-friendly knife, spread peanut butter on toast, or scoop hummus onto his plate. He still needs supervision for this though and he doesn’t always want to wait for me to help him (he has a baby sister so sometimes I’m busy and he decides to get on with it by himself).

The chair incident happened because I was changing the baby’s nappy and he wanted to make me ‘a nice cup of tea’. Obviously the kettle is kept up on the counter so he decided to climb up. He’s been told lots of times that he needs to have an adult with him if he wants to make food and drinks. Unfortunately we have an open plan downstairs so I can’t just shut the kitchen door, and he was ignoring me telling him to wait.

You're fine.

Shout (controlled) for safety points.

Naughty step for naughtiness.

Whatever you do, stick to it.

Shouting, to me, to provide a shock for an immediate safety issue is completely OK in my book. Your son sounds similar to mine – he is now 6yrs old and much better at recognising caution and listening the first time round. He HATES being shouted at, but it also becomes a battle of wills sometimes because he is very self-righteous, and my will has to win when I can see he’s about to mill himself!

This sounds like a clever and resourceful child. My son could make himself a sandwich age 5 when my 7 years old would complain "Mum, I am hungry ". Can't you move a kettle out of the way? Or buy one of those machines that only boils water for one cup at a time?