For thinking a cafe should not be asking for donation's from their customer’s

[Bambooparty]

Would love to hear other opinions on this .

Lovely little cafe near to where I live. Overinflated prices, but I don’t mind paying as it’s small local business with good coffee. Owners are mid 20’s.

It’s busy all the time, they pay staff, have lots of corporate clients etc.

I was quite shocked when I went in today as there were quite a few posters asking for donations for a kitchen renovation. They had QR code which directed us to a site asking for them to help pay for a new kitchen, stove, flooring etc. and help with costs as they will be closed for a week.

AIBU for thinking this should be something they should save or ask the bank for a loan ?

I think it is a generational thing, many young ones don't hesitate to ask for funding. They have been brought to "ask and you will get" They rarely have to pay their own way. Just read some of the threads on here, parents that refuse to ask a 20 year old that is working to pay rent or contribute to the household in any way, Parents that still pay for their adult children's, phones, holidays, car insurance and lunch money. Many are given a free pay day when they go to uni. The world pays for them, they pay for nothing.

I probably wouldn’t donate, but why wouldn’t it be legal for them to ask?

Places crowdfund. I guess it's not that different (although there's often a reward with those) Just ignore if you don't want to donate.

Just been catching up with the replies.
It still doesn't sit right with me. You've paid at what op says are 'overinflated' prices anyway. Why would they then think it's ok to ask customers to chip in with the rent and bills? I'd love to look at their books. I bet they're not struggling just greedy bastards who haven't factored in having to close for a week and don't want to take the hit. But you know, they'll probably get lots from it.
Everyone will be doing it.

It's greed, but it's the world we live in, and judging by a lot of the comments, seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Probably some truth in that...why pay, when you can some other suckers to pay?

It is always sad when honest, decent small businesses fail - and I agree that it's often through no real fault of the owner.

But if the business isn't sustainable now, what is going to change after they have a new kitchen installed - other than a slightly higher value for them to benefit from when they sell the premises to the next person wanting to give it a go running a slightly different cafe there?

it wouldn't bother me at all. If I liked the place and the owners I might kick in whatever I could afford (max of a tenner, not hundreds!!). If I wasn't bothered then I wouldn't. Being pushier than just having posters up would annoy me though.

That depends....bigger facilities to make more stuff at once avoiding selling out....energy saving equipment.....expanding the business to selling take home stuff....more temperature controlled storage so they can save money by bulk buying..maybe the old facilities are wearing out and breaking down...maybe (as someone has said) its about complying with food premises laws.

Have they actually said why the new kitchen is essential to the business, and how the current one is unworkable? Or do they just fancy jazzing it up with something a bit funkier?

I don't know the owners of this particular cafe, nor their needs or motives; but it's surprising how many people there are out there who summarily fail to understand the difference between a need and a want.

I know it's an extreme example, but I'll never forget the young woman I saw on one of those 'I'm struggling with money and don't know what very obvious changes to make to my spending' TV programmes a number of years ago. She had just bought herself a brand new Mercedes on credit, and was now in a seriously bad way financially. It turns out that she'd bought herself a new Merc (same model) one year previously, but they'd just slightly changed the shape/styling of that model, and she genuinely couldn't understand how that didn't mean that her current 1yo car had now been rendered obsolete and useless.

If they are shaking a can outside the cafe when you go in, or asking customers if they'd like to donate when you pay- then absolutely not. I'd find this rude.

A QR code on the wall, I likely wouldn't know how to access that anyways, even if I did want to contribute. I don't think people realise that Gofund type sites take a cut of the profits too?

A cafe/bakery near us did similar. The original, elderly owner either died or got very ill and family took over. They wanted to money for new kitchen equipment- which strangely all seemed to work prior to father getting ill. Rightly or wrongly, I assumed it was bad planning on their part, lack of insurance or some other reason they were asking people not only for their patronage, but additional money too.

Very true... but I wonder if they're trying to run before they can walk.

Even M&S began with a single market stall!

I wouldn't expect them to be in business very long as they're clearly terrible at it, but in the meantime carry on enjoying the coffee. It doesn't affect you beyond having to see a couple of posters.

Over the 30 years I’ve lived in this area many,many lovely little cafes and restaurants I have loved to visit have closed down. The best French restaurant I have ever eaten at and a fantastic restaurant on a boat amongst them. If any of them had done a bit of fundraising to help stay open I would certainly have contributed. Sadly Wild Oats, Lettonie and The Glass Boat remain only happy memories. OP if you value this cafe just make a small donation.

Why should she? OP values this cafe by repeat business, by continued patronage. That's her contribution.

You don't need to prompt people to donate and really shouldn't either. People who want to donate, will. They don't need coercing.

We used to have a most amazing bakery in the town where I grew up. The owner was a very elderly woman - iirc she might have been into her 90s - and I suppose the business was her life. She was very wealthy, so it's not like she had no choice but to keep going. She only literally stopped working when she dropped dead in her garden one weekend.

After she died, her ovens and other kitchen equipment were donated to a museum, as they were so old and distinctive. I don't know how that would have gone now, and whether she would have been forced to update them to comply with new regulations; but she was perfectly able to bake this incredibly delicious and extremely popular bread in ancient museum-worthy ovens! RIP Mrs Price.

Have you looked at the details of the crowdfunder? It might be that they are offering discounts etc to supporters.

The Royal Albert Hall was essentially crowd-funded with the promise of seats for supporters.

It takes a lot of coffees, even at what you consider to be inflated prices, to meet the running costs of a cafe, let alone a refurb to professional standards that meet local authority regs etc. And independent cafes do bring added benefits to the area as a whole.

So not that odd to start a fund. Contribute or not, up to you.

Yes, indeed. It's really about setting realistic prices so that you can cover all of your costs - including the big one-off costs that will inevitably arise eventually, as well as your regular day-to-day overheads.

It just makes it so awkward and blurs the relationship between the business and the customer, as though it were a charity concern, rather than their livelihood, which you would hope they'd be running competently and wisely.

Will they stop at the poster, or if they don't get enough cash in, might they start commenting about it to their customers (even if not asking outright) and make them feel guilty for not giving over and above paying for their food and drink? If so, that's a sure downward spiral for their business. People will stop coming in, as nobody wants to listen to the business owner's endless woes and pleas when they're just wanting to relax with a drink and a scone.

@DalzielOrNoDalzielAndDontPascoe a new kitchen could mean they could offer better food, or different food, and therefore make more money.

this is what we don't know and I'd certainly be getting more info before decisding what to do.....of course it might be on the poster and the OP hasn't told us.

I agree; but sometimes you have to be patient and grow a business at a sustainable rate.

Never mind small family businesses, how many big chains have we seen expanding too quickly or ambitiously and going under as a result? Wilkos just for one.

@DalzielOrNoDalzielAndDontPascoe I don't disagree, I just don't see the issue in them putting up a poster.

It's not like anyone is being forced to donate - I guess I just can't see what the problem is.

Print out a QR code to direct them to a fund for coffee for yourself. Stick this over the current QR code. Sorted.

It would strike me as poor management. This is a business, contingency planning is part of the job.

There’s one near me which is a hopeless CIC / community / company / charity cafe and their fundraisers attract support but just end with money vanishing somewhere until the begging bowl comes out again. Meanwhile the coffee and food offerings stay mediocre. I’ve given up.

Good on them. I wonder if people refuse to donate they will also whine if it closes down.

Running a business is hard. Especially if it is a young business, it's hard to get funding. If it's been opened in a poorer area, clearly that's because the premises are cheaper, possibly somewhere the local authority is offering a deal on rates to encourage businesses.

The next generation of entrepreneurs are doing things differently because they have to. Not because they are lazy or entitled, but because the ladder was pulled up by the time they got there.

Support them or don't. It will work or it won't. But judging them on the basis of a couple of posters on the wall is a bit off.

I entirely take your point when it comes to the people who complain about the village shop closing, when they only ever get in the car and go to Tesco on the edge of the big town and haven't been there for 10 years... but most people would consider that they are supporting a business by regularly spending their money on goods and/or products there.

That's how business works: they offer things for sale and people choose or don't choose to buy them. Asking for donations is what a charity does; not a business.

I know it's often hard running a business, especially in the early days; but if they can't secure lending from a bank or increase their prices slightly, why don't they look for investors instead - whether they sign over a percentage of the business to them or just give them premium rights and privileges when using the business that ordinary 'pay as you go' customers don't benefit from? Nothing stopping them from making it clear that they're trying to boost their early cashflow with an appropriate business proposition where both parties benefit, but without actually asking for donations.

Supposing you can get 100 customers paying you for 9 coffee-and-cake specials in advance and then they'll get their 10th one free - or even pay for 80 and get 100 - it'll take most of them quite some time to plough through it, so you get a big cash boost upfront; then, by the time they're on to the free ones, you should be in a much better position.

Or something like Tesco do, where regulars sign up for a loyalty card (maybe pre-paid to a minimum amount) and then get better prices than the ones on the menu. Then one-off customers who choose you - maybe daytrippers or holidaymakers (depending on where you're located) - will happily pay the higher prices, so you win both ways.