To wonder why the Civil Service is so worshipped?

[Babysonfire12345]

I definitely understand that the pension is one of the best out there.
However, flexi is offered elsewhere, WFH is offered elsewhere. I can't think of a single other benefit.
It's not even necessarily a 'job for life', there are redundancies. Pay is really low for AO-HEO grades for what is expected.
I don't see the appeal of it except for the pension, what am I missing?

I've been a civil servant for over 35 years. It's OK, I'm paid well for what I do. No worshipping from me

I get all this in the private sector plus decent pay rises.

Yes but it's not standard in the private sector

And I thought salaries outside of London were often better on the public sector vs private sector?

It’s so big though you can’t really compare the life of the British ambassador to France to a low paid admin role in a call centre.

Civil service pay is probably pretty good for middle management with lots of interesting jobs and flexi and a pretty good salary for the lifestyle. It will also be a great entry point for many people with a chance to progress. However, civil service pay is shit for the senior civil service with the pressure and accountability that comes with it.

@Needmorelego glad I could help! Policy in particular was a mystery to me until I worked with a policy team and then it all made sense, civil service does have a language all its own!

It definitely isn't cushy from my point of view. Pretty much full on from 8.30 to 5. No perks at all. Public perception is often unsupportive because of government policy and this is expressed to us frequently. We sometimes don't feel safe as apparently it's fine to have my handbag searched when I go to an event but we have to trust that the person in front of us isnt carrying a knife or acid as it's against their rights.

I read on here frequently about people in cushy jobs doing barely any work or working from home. We can't have hybrid or WFH . It's still better than a lot of my previous roles though as I work with intelligent people in an interesting role which actually does help people.

I’m a union rep in the civil service. For those of you who think people are unsackable, think again. In the past six months I’ve seen people sacked for:

incompetence
abusing the sick leave policy
making a throwaway jokey remark which was deemed to be sexual harassment
fraud (which wasn’t and they got reinstated because the people on the dismissal panel have no idea what they are doing - quite a lot of these cases)

Pay is pretty good, I think. A G6 in London in our department is on around £75K.

Most of the people I know work really hard, although I’ve worked in others where it’s been an absolute piss take.

When government says it's going to do something, politicians aren't the ones doing the doing, civil servants are.

And just to add to my comment above, this is why the civil service on the whole gets a bad reputation. Politicians will scape goat the civil service to say it's their fault a certain promise/policy hasn't been delivered rather than admitting their own political incompetence, the politicised press also love to kick the civil service for their own agenda (note Brexit and WFH in particular in recent years) it is a political football. Sadly, Labour have already started playing that game.

The 'worshipping' is just some people recognising it's a pretty stable job with good perks, not always easy to get into. I think on the whole, it gets a whole lot more kicking than kissing! Because it's political prudent for so many to do so, and sadly, divide and rule works so it fits into the gammon agenda.

Although just to add I am not saying the CS is perfect, far from it, I could write a much longer post on those faults, but think much of the generalisations which seem to get quite personal can be re-assessed. Pointing the finger at the wrong people. It's ministers and very senior civil servants we should be pointing fingers at, not the small minority of work shy staff you'll find in any organisation.

@Needmorelego

Well that depends on the role doesn't it? I would have thought speech writing and organising events was self explanatory,
Recruitment -writing and placing job adverts, dealing with enquiries, shortlisting, interviewing, induction/training programme
Teacher regulation - I used to tell my son I banned the naughty teachers. I managed the data base of qualified teachers, worked with LAs, liased with DBS to ensure records of teachers with convictions were accurate, some work also with the police on similar, ensured that the records of 30, 000 newly qualified teachers every year were updated accurately working with 140 local authorities and 100s of schools, advised the same on statutory regulations, investigated historical errors. I had a team of 6 call/email handlers who were busy all day with enquiries from teachers, schools, LAs, overseas bodies. We handled huge amounts of data about trainee teachers which was the first indicator if there were shortages in recruitment etc. Worked with the team that managed the teacher disciplinary panels to provide info and critically that any teachers who were barred had accurate records. Thats about half my job description in that role.

I left the civil service in 2023, I was burnt out and fed up of all the crap dished out to civil servants
I'm now a foster carer

Sick pay is not that anymore. It’s one month per year plus one month half pay per year.

@Ted27 when you say it like that it makes sense but for someone to just say "I work in the Civil Service" is just vague.
If someone said they are an event planner or a speech writer I have a bit of a clue what they are actually doing at their job.
I frequently see advertised for the (my home town) Town Council a job for an event organiser for the town council run events (ie the Christmas Lights switch on). Is this a Civil Service job?
But when I read threads like this one I get the impression you get a job at the Civil Service they can send you anywhere - is that how it works?

Yes I’m like you.

My experience is that most people in the civil service are more than capable of getting better paid jobs outside it. It’s quite hard to get into at a middle and upwards grade, and quite easy to move from it to a private sector job.

People don’t because they like the idea of a rewarding job where they perform a public service and because once you’ve started paying into the pension you want to continue.

But the pp saying it’s for those who can’t get other jobs is likely saying that to salve some kind of chip on their shoulder!

I've done 35 years & I think it was worshipped as being being a job for life when I started work! So many of the Terms & Conditions have been eroded over the past 20 years though.

As to what we do, I spent 20 years in Revenue & Customs, customer service, tax collection auditing & then moved to the Ministry of Defence!

So in summary 20 years collecting tax & 14 years spending it!

There are Digital roles, commercial roles, Project Management, income generation, media & comms, scientists - so many different things!

The jobs are interesting & you definitely feel that you are contributing to something & are a force for good!

@Needmorelego

To add to @LondonPapa I've always worked in operational roles.

So in the teacher regulation example I gave 'policy team' would produce the statutory framework, my team would deliver it. In my dept at least Policy and operational teams worked quite closely together. No point in having a great policy if you can't operationalise it.

@Needmorelego

Local authorities are not part of the civil service.
A lot of the events I ran were internal conferences/training event, others were targeted at schools/local authorities eg who we were consulting with on major policy changes or providing training.

Towards the end of my time in the civil service a lot of my friends were very reluctant to say what they actually did because we were getting a battering from our 'customer ' groups for things which were out of our control. For example during Covid, my team was dependent on Number 10 special advisors giving the go ahead. It was a nightmare getting anything out of them - we now know of course about the parties. But my team and dept was slated by everyone when we working all hours to get things done.

There are some trainee schemes in the civil service were you can in effect be sent anywhere during the training period but after that it's up to you to find a role. Most people just apply for specific jobs. I've never moved location
My son has just applied for an internship and was asked for up to 3 preferred locations..

I joined the CS 25 years into my career which is not normal in my department and it was a bit of a culture shock for me. I love my job (I'm a G6). The pension is fabulous but i often work crazy hours so never get to use my Flexi. I also work in a dept that expects 60% office attendance. I work in a role that combines delivery with policy so i get to see real world changes my work contributes to. I feel privileged to see some of the political stuff i see. It's not the best paid job but it's very satisfying.

Town Council a job for an event organiser for the town council run events (ie the Christmas Lights switch on). Is this a Civil Service job?
But when I read threads like this one I get the impression you get a job at the Civil Service they can send you anywhere - is that how it works?

No that's not a Civil Service job, that's a council job, Civil Service tends to be central Government or Government Agencies!
HMRC, DWP, Valuation office, Home Office all that sort of stuff!

They can move you to another role within reasonable daily travel but it doesn't happen very often!

The Ministry of Defence offer some voluntary opportunities to help out in emergencies like the MACA (Military Aid to Civil Authorities) so helping house refugees or Brexit or Covid!.

I moved to CS after a started career in academia. I like the security. Especially after academia! I go home at 4pm and don't worry about work. Flexi time (accrues extra days off), WFH, an increment every year, nice pension for the future, decent sick leave should I need it. Don't have to wear corporate outfits any more. Salary goes up pretty quickly, not amazing riches but not awful either. Scope for promotion or even a sideways move for a change of scene. You can also have shorter working years or career breaks without losing your role. The work can be dull busywork, and they are a notorious dumping ground for the otherwise unemployable (one in every office I've been in! How does the dispersal system work?!) However, imo the advantages and work/life balance is worth any office annoyance. 'Worship' is a bit much but as far as careers go, you could do a lot worse.

My son joined the civil service fast stream after studying PPE at Oxford. He has had a very interesting career so far with lots of travel, including USA, New Zealand , China and many European countries. He has had his MA at The College of Europe in Poland paid for, including living expenses. Before Brexit he was able to take advanced French lessons and was sent to work at the European Parliament for six months. I don’t think those sort of opportunities are common in the private sector. He works very hard, sometimes under considerable pressure. The good working conditions help him cope with this. The pay at grade 6 is acceptable, yes he might make more in the private sector but would have to subscribe to the long hours culture, and he does prefer a good work/life balance. There is also a very good social side to being a CS. I’m proud of what he does and anyone without a good work ethic wouldn’t last long in his department.

@rockstarshoes so why do people say it as "I work in the Civil Service" rather than "I work in the tax office" ?
Is it a security thing?

Hi. Apologies in advance if this is cheeky, but would you mind if I messaged you to ask a couple of questions. Your situation is very like I think mine might work out to be. I'd really appreciate it.. Cheers x

@Needmorelego

Well if you worked at MI5 you probably wouldn't say it.
I was vaguely involved with Operation London Bridge - death of the queen and funeral and you weren't allowed to talk about that.
Depending on the job, people often don't want to be harangued about how much tax they pay, or passport backlogs or whatever. During Covid I would never have admitted I worked in the Dept of Education because we were getting a battering about school closures
I also found that if I said I worked for the Dept for Education people assumed I worked for the local authority or in a school and that I got all school holidays. My next door neighbour of 15 years still can't get her head round the fact that I didn't work school hours.
When I was a wee slip of a girl, me and my best mate who worked in my team would have a great time down the pub winding men up about working for the govt and pretending to be engaged in top secret work of great national importance. Great fun

Sometimes it can be but I think mostly on a superficial level I just say Civil Servant because it gives people an idea of what you do - that's always the first answer!

I used to dread telling people I worked for Revenue & Customs because people would back away or start asking advice on their tax affairs which is even worse! 🤣

I think if you're form filling Civil Servant is usually your profession - 🤷‍♀️

No problem telling people I work for the MoD if they ask what I do but people tend to glaze over at Civil Servant so I leave it there!

Somewhere people work when they can’t go anywhere better??
This is so rude and snobby. Wow.

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