Tories and Labour mooting possible means testing of State Pension

[Turmerictolly]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jan/17/kemi-badenoch-pensions-triple-lock-means-test-alarm-tories

I would be so gutted if this happened but there's noise from both parties about this recently. I think it might be inevitable. What will happen to those of us nearing 60 who have made plans that include the full state pension we've paid contributions for?

All this chopping and changing feels a bit like the drip drip drip and never knowing what was coming next of the COVID rules. My father lived to 60, my stepfather to 70. Neither would have claimed their pension.

I have about 5 years of stamp left to pay for the full state pension but I'm not even sure if there's any point.

Yes, it would never get through the Commons at the moment. Many Labour MPs would rebel, and Tories, LDs, Reform and the Greens would all vote against it.

If it ever happened, it won’t be for years.

Irony deficiency much?

Who would pay their stamp just be to entitled to a state pension if you were poor enough? It would mean the pension is no longer a pension but simply part of universal credit

Someone who is out of the workforce for a few years, hopefully temporarily.
A couple who have been self employed and unable to make good enough private arrangements but worked all their life and would rather not claim UC, or not sure what the rules will be when they reach pension age .

Also, someone who is not even sure their private pension will be there in retirement with the rapidly changing financial system we're in, plus threat of wars etc. it's additional insurance.

No I get plenty of iron in my diet. Why do you ask?

I started working at 16. When I was 18 I took two weeks off to go on holiday before I started a new, full time, job.

After a few weeks I was summoned to an appointment at the DHS (as if was then) office where a middle-aged man thrust his big red face into mine and yelled at me that I had NI contributions (2 weeks) missing and that my State Pension depended on full contributions and I would suffer an old age of penury. I must make them up immediately.

That sounds to me pretty much like a contract: I pay the contributions, the state pays my pension when I retire, regardless of my situation. If NI is for other things than providing the payer's State Pension, then that should be made absolutely clear. I have never been told that officially.

If I had paid 12% of my salary into a private pension or a saving scheme from the age of 18, I would probably have ended up having enough to fund a pension comparable to the State Pension. It would have been better for me to opt out of the NI - which I was assured was funding my Pension - and save for myself if I could.

TLDR: I have been given the impression by various Civil Servants (ie State employees) over the years that I am entitled, yes, entitled, to a full State Pension because I have fulfilled my side of the deal and made full NI contributions all my working life. So, no, I don't think it is reasonable to means test my State Pension, or make any other deductions from it.

But if this happens , people who worked and have a work place pension will be no better off than people who have never paid in and get a state pension! How’s this idea fair ? What was the point in people going to work to pay into a work pension for 50 years ?

This idea that you pay stamp and there a hypothecated amount for you is a total fiction legally. The government could change it tomorrow - stamp contributions are like common law marriage and rights said to come from that. There are no such rights but people believe they are.

The test for the government having to give you actual money, guaranteed, is so unbelievably difficult. People want to believe that pensions are different from benefits. Legally they are the same. You can cut them, adjust them or otherwise change the terms if it’s a state pension.

A private pension is legally a much better deal in that sense; it’s your money. Anyone who is relying on the state to fund their retirement needs to think again. It could change anytime. Your private pensions really are yours. State pensions are not

It was in my opinion ridiculous that Sunak put in place a stamp duty holiday during Covid times.
Surely it made house prices go higher with people out bidding eachother ?

What was the benefit to the Tories then stamp duty holiday ?

You quite clearly said in the list of organisations rinsing us "militant unions". So say again, the only organisations fighting for ordinary working people?

Or someone like a friend of mine who has never worked (her partner does) and who was advised by the family accountant to pay into the SP when the credits she got for school age children ended. She will get a full SP, which will be more than many people who have worked for decades will do, and voluntary contributions are significantly lower than full NI payments.

I say again what I wrote. Do you struggle to read?

Nigel Lawson and Gordon Brown destroyed the UK private pension system between them. Not surprised if this comes to pass. The Aussies do something similar already, I believe.

Well labour aren't going to do it ... they couldn't manage to do it with the winter fuel allowance ... backtracked! People have paid 40 plus years of NI and rightly expect their state pension ... that's the deal, that's why we've paid over £5k to 'top up'. I think there would be the biggest backlash ever seen if they try this.

And if you die leaving money in your pension pot, government will soon want 40% of it as it will be subject to inheritance tax

It's a good idea - and I wouldn't get it under these rules. Why are we giving wealthy pensioners money? There's no such thing as the pension pot unless it's employer or private. NI pays for older generations and other public services. It's nuts that working people are paying people wealthier than them potentially for decades.

Of course it's the case that people have paid into their state pension ... that's why they say you've only paid in W so can only get X out, but if your put in Y then you can get Z when you are 66/67/68.

I’m a benefits adviser, I’d say PIP isn’t always that hard to get. It can be, but not always. As is the case with AA. Much depends on the quality of the application form etc.

No, but you clearly have trouble with comprehension. The unions are the only organisation supporting the ordinary working people of this country and are definitely not rinsing anyone.

Would have been easier to admit that you didn’t read.

Playing devils advocate here. The famous saying about pensioners paying into the system and only getting back what they’ve paid in isn’t necessarily true.

Let’s say the state pension is £900 a month. And let’s say someone l lives for 30 years after retirement. Even if they paid national insurance and income tax for 45 years, the state would give them far more back than they ever paid into it.

Theres lots of people who retired at 60 or 65 30 years ago who are still alive. Unless they had a well paid job and paid a lot of taxes, they will get more from the state then they actually paid in.

Or does this not make sense? If you do the maths you can see why state pensions drain the system.

Obviously this isn’t the pensioners fault, I just mean this old theory that they are only getting back what they paid in isn’t accurate.

Don’t forget that the money we pay now, income tax, national insurance is already spent before we even pay it- just goes into the UKs overdraft.