Tories and Labour mooting possible means testing of State Pension

[Turmerictolly]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jan/17/kemi-badenoch-pensions-triple-lock-means-test-alarm-tories

I would be so gutted if this happened but there's noise from both parties about this recently. I think it might be inevitable. What will happen to those of us nearing 60 who have made plans that include the full state pension we've paid contributions for?

I haven't got an account. It just opened for me

During the phone-in, a listener put it to Mrs Badenoch that “there are some people that get the pension or get the triple lock applied to it who do not need it” and asked: “Shouldn’t we look at that and perhaps using that money to help build more houses or help young people to become homeowners?”

The Tory leader replied: “So that’s exactly the sort of thing that the policy work we’re going to be doing will look at. I have always said that we don’t do means-testing…” She was then interrupted by Iain Dale, the LBC host, who said: “So you’re actually going to look at the triple lock?”
Mrs Badenoch responded: “No, we’re going to look at means-testing. Means testing is something which we don’t do properly here. I’m someone who always said, for example, that millionaires should not be getting the winter fuel payment.
It is understood that the Tory leader was proposing to means-test the winter fuel payment, not the pensions triple lock. She has accused Labour of going too far by stripping all but the poorest pensioners of the benefit.

This is a very good post and sums up my thinking too.

This is what she said.

It's not very well communicated - she talks about the triple lock too much

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/tories-means-testing-triple-lock-kemi-badenoch/

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/3479693-Changes-to-Pension-Credit

@Jabtastic

"It seems to me sometimes that there is no point working in this country because the more you work, the more you pay for everyone else "

Which is exactly why 9 million people are economically inactive in the UK - I mean what's the point?

And those that are higher earners are taxed so high that they may as well either retire early, go part time or if they're really wealthy move abroad.

And this is exactly why productivity is so low in the UK.

And this is exactly why productivity is so low in the UK.

productivity has been low for years & years.

@1dayatatime I was quoting another poster and agreeing with them but yes I think you're right about the issue of low productivity.

Economically inactive

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52660591

A lot of students and carers

You're overestimating inflation. £70k in Dec 2024 is equivalent to £56k in 2020

Why don't you focus on wealthy pensioners with asset wealth and personal pensions who own their home mortgage free, have gifted deposits to their DC, can afford to buy a new car every couple of years, take multiple foreign holidays each year and can afford to lunch out multiple times a week BUT are also receiving SP and AA because it is not means tested? If they're having multiple foreign holidays each year it unlikely they're receiving AA

@MereDintofPandiculation I am the person you think is rich. We bought our house with a mortgage 27 years ago. But DH is still at work. A fortnight ago I watched his health crisis and was in the ambulance that roared through at 105 mph. He lived, but he's already back at work on light duty. Promise you that while we receive SP, we are still paying tax on earned income at 40%.

Sorry to hear this @Papyrophile Hope hes better now and recovers quickly

That makes literally zero sense. It’s contributions based. It also removes an incentive for people to make their own provision. The more you make all parts of the welfare state and the aocial contracy only available to the most impoverished, the more you erode public support. Everybody should get a basic state pension (based on year’s of contribution) and then people encouraged to build on that basic amount with private provision.

The WASPI women had 15+ years of advance notice for the change from 60 to 65.

Whilst I am angry about the winter fuel payment because my elderly mum is just above the pension credit threshold, it's hardly the same thing.

Thank you @JenniferBooth . It wasn't an experience I'd wish for anyone, but the NHS were absolutely awesome from top to bottom on this occasion and DH is feeling fitter than I think is possible so soon after the event. All the rabbits were pulled from all the hats to get him back on track. There's not enough praise.

I think perhaps people are over estimating the burden of the unemployed on other work age tax paying adults. Currently only 4.3% of working age adults are unemployed. But 19% of the population are over 65.

So the burden on working age adults comes from those who have retired and unless the birth rate rises that tax burden will increase on our children - who will be paying an ever higher price for our pensions, health and care. That will materially affect their ability to buy houses and save for their retirements and health and care needs. So it's really about intergenerational fairness not what the stat owes us or you.

As has been explained earlier our current taxes are paying for tge pensions of those who are retired. There is no magic pot you've paid into that the government could be raiding in future. It's being spent now to support our parents.

I think perhaps people are over estimating the burden of the unemployed on other work age tax paying adults.

Yep because as I said so many don't want to
acknowledge the demographics

So it's really about intergenerational fairness not what the stat owes us or you.

Perhaps it's easier to deny the above if you don't acknowledge the change in demographics

If they're having multiple foreign holidays each year it unlikely they're receiving AA

AA isn't means tested, my aunt gets it & frequently visits her Spanish holiday home....

the tax bands need to move & inflation has devalued money. 70k today is probably 50k 4/5 yrs ago.

You're overestimating inflation. £70k in Dec 2024 is equivalent to £56k in 2020

Hence my use of the word probably but my guess wasn't that far off...

AA isn't means tested as you know. It's very hard to claim AA and the form is complicated.

I am sure you know that someone who needs to claim AA has to go into a lot of detail about their personal needs, long term personal care etc.

Will people who need to claim AA generally be going on multiple foreign holidays?

I know a few people (relatives) who get AA, they all holiday regularly.

I've seen the form, it's long but many have help from wider family to fill it in.

And I'm not saying for one second they don't have impairments or disabilities but I just don't understand why it isn't means tested.

Do you think they are "ill enough" and have enough care needs to claim AA?