Tories and Labour mooting possible means testing of State Pension

[Turmerictolly]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jan/17/kemi-badenoch-pensions-triple-lock-means-test-alarm-tories

I would be so gutted if this happened but there's noise from both parties about this recently. I think it might be inevitable. What will happen to those of us nearing 60 who have made plans that include the full state pension we've paid contributions for?

The vast majority of private sector workers have very little independent pension provision. Compulsory work pensions didn't start until 2018. Before that, many people saved nothing.

If they want to means test the state pension, they need to change the terms and the clear expectation that is currently created, and they need to give 20 years warning so people can plan appropriately.

The gradual raising of the pension age has been one approach and has helped, but anything more radical would be political suicide.

Maybe we should do a Logan's run and "get rid" of people over a certain age?

But that might be a bit drastic.

We are living longer though. And how we as a society accommodate people in their old age says something about our society.

@cakeorwine its bullshit & doesn’t include the cost of defence etc, it’s just a way of getting people frothing about the feckless or whatever.

That’s nonsense. That’s not how the economy works. You don’t need a pyramid scheme of majority non-working and low paid and a small minority paying for everyone else. That would be socialism….oh sorry forgot….this country is practically a socialist hellhole.

Depends on how it's quoted and used.

And the definition - when a statistic is misused or quoted by people without more context, then I can be pissed off at it because it's meaningless without context

We are living longer though. And how we as a society accommodate people in their old age says something about our society.

A big issue is that whilst life expectancy has increased healthy life expectancy hasn’t increased much. And nobody wants to pay more or even acknowledge we have an ageing population 🤷🏻‍♀️

What's nonsense?

You don't think that people who produce food, provide housing and meet people's basic needs contribute to society?

and they need to give 20 years warning so people can plan appropriately.

We’ve run out of money now though..

I'm not sure how I feel about means testing tbh but I do believe that if we are expecting people to work to an older age, then employers (and I include the Government of what ever colour in this) and society have to change its overall attitude and approach towards older people.

I know there will be many examples of people with exemplary health but the reality is not going to be the same for many of us. I suspect we will need to be more flexible than many work places are now and be prepared to make reasonable adjustments that we havent had to before. If we don't we may find we end up with a new group in society - those too young to retire, too "well" to qualify for incapacity benefits but unemployed / unemployable.

Either that or we may be dead before we get there. How depressing 🤣

Pissed off at the misuse is fine. At the fact itself less so.

I think this feeds into politicians not telling us things we don’t want to hear because we don’t want to accept reality.

Not suggesting this applies to you necessarily but I think there is a general trend of this.

I think this feeds into politicians not telling us things we don’t want to hear because we don’t want to accept reality.

I agree with that, the can has been kicked down the road but we are now running out of road.

So true

And at the other end of the age scale, younger people are struggling to afford somewhere to live, they can see that they probably won't get much of a State Pension when older and that there are fewer young people compared to an ageing population.

Auto enrolment started in 2012, which while not that long ago isn’t quite as bad as 2018! I think rolling employees NI into income tax would help break the link between contributions and entitlement to a state pension, and would allow for a transition over time.

Exactly. I've paid in 42 years, 35 as a higher rate tax payer, and have been told all along that it entitles me to a state pension. I've worked full time even through chemo, not claimed benefits and been a net contributor. I expect that agreement to be honoured and I'll vote however I need to (even Reform) to ensure it is. Not something I say lightly !!

That is my red line.

We never really recovered from the 08 crash (I bleat on about this all the time), low interest rates just masked this. They also fuelled growth in assets & devalued wages, although wage stagnation has its roots in the 70s. No investment in public services, young people etc, we made ever increasing house prices a key driver of our economy. Then we had Brexit. It’s a disaster before you even look at the shift in demographics but I have no idea how you can solve it.

This is not possible. It doesn't matter what you want, frankly. Most of us have similarly worked for decades of our lives and we would all love to just have a nice sum paid into our accounts regularly from 67 until we die. But facts don't care about feelings. You can be as pissed off as you like. It simply is not possible for the workforce of the day to indefinitely cover the cost of handing out money to wealthy old people for 20, 30, 40 years of their lives.

And having claimed no benefits certainly doesn't mean you haven't benefitted from money paid into the pot by others that provided your education and all the healthcare you've had.

How would Reform do the "maths of ageing"

Who would pay for it?

That's very blinkered thinking. If you don't vote to protect the interests of working people, who do you expect will be paying your pension?

I am a working person.

I think actual means testing would be very difficult. I think people are more willing to contribute to universal services and most pension planning until very recently has been based on complimenting state pension.

I can see it remaining universal benefit, where the value is gradually eroded over time by adjusting the triple lock, and an expansion of pension credit for those who haven't got a private pension. Whi h I guess is the same result.

35 years only applies to people who started paying NI from 2016 for the New State Pension. PP could need more or less years depending on their circumstances prior to 2016.

There's also the cost of adult social care as well to think ab

But your pension is paid for by the next generation of working people.

Where do you think your NI contributions go now?

Coldanddamp · Today 10:05

Ultimately there is one pot of money. We all take vast, vast amounts of money from the pot whether or not we claim benefits.

Agreed and some take far more than others. But those of us who take far less should just suck it all up.

Pensioner costs are viewed very narrowly in terms of actual pension payment rather than looking at associated benefits. Do we really need free prescriptions at 60? Just google the costs of providing paracetamol on prescription; absolute insanity, & that is just one drug! Or how about a discussion around the associated costs of running the benefits system, irrespective of what the benefit is? Every single time the government makes a change to a benefit, even a totally minor one, say a new flag on a database, there are enormous associated costs from an army of business analysts, developers, testers, config management, middle managers architects etc. Private IT companies are absolutely creaming it in, the DWP is a behemoth. A lot of this tinkering around with the system is all for the purpose of manipulating government stats; I know because I worked there. Bigger changes will run into millions.....

That is my red line

But you have to acknowledge that younger generations also have red lines. They are working for less & paying for more & emigration will increase for those with the skills. Lots of western countries are in a similar demographic pickle & there will be more incentives like Portugal are trying. We will need immigration from elsewhere but that’s not popular either…

https://www.blacktowerfm.com/news/portugals-youth-tax-breaks-bold-move-to-combat-brain-drain/