Tories and Labour mooting possible means testing of State Pension

[Turmerictolly]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jan/17/kemi-badenoch-pensions-triple-lock-means-test-alarm-tories

I would be so gutted if this happened but there's noise from both parties about this recently. I think it might be inevitable. What will happen to those of us nearing 60 who have made plans that include the full state pension we've paid contributions for?

I suppose it depends how sustainable the current State Pension model is. I don’t think there should be any “sacred cows”, that’s not to say anything should change, but all things should be regularly reviewed.

What source do you have for the Labour "noise"?

I'm in Australia where the state pension is means-tested and have wondered how long it would take the UK to get round to this.

The triple lock is the easiest way forward, indeed those Brits who live abroad and receive the state pension are already outside the triple lock, though it's automatic, not means-tested. It pisses the Australian government off no end, as it means more Poms end up qualifying for the Aussie state pension.

I think that the current system is unsustainable and it may be that to get afford the nhs to keep you fit and well into retirement and a police force to keep everyone safe there is a need to make cuts.

The public sector is broken, utterly broken. Everyone is going to have to pay the price of the damage austerity has inflicted.

It's awful as you have made plans but lots of people in all different stages of life will be effected in similar ways with cuts I think

But people have paid into it their whole lives. I am 5 years odd mine and I have made 42 years of contributions. If I was to not get it I'd be devastated

Pensioners vote.

Pensioners mostly vote Tory.

Very unlikely to happen as any party that says it will do it will have a lot of people voting against them.

Not saying impossible, but unlikely.

If you look at the transcript of the Kemi badenoch interview which produced this headline she was specifically asked about it and said she was in favour of more means testing generally.

I think the Aussie pension has a minimum that everyone gets, and they consider other pensions, income etc. and you lose 50 cents for every dollar of your income.

Not enough people in the 50’s/60’s have substantial private pensions. Not sure of the figure but think the average pot for private sectors workers is fairly small. Many will be largely reliant on the state pension. This would make the public/private sector split even more marked as public sector workers will be fine and lots of private sector workers will be in poverty.

Did you read the piece OP? It’s purely a Kemi Badenoch suggestion. She’s not in power, so it won’t happen - not now, anyway.

This is the problem, that people are led to think that they have paid in to anything - that isn’t the case at all. I think it’s inevitable and have always calculated my pension based on little or no state benefits. It s shit and will leave us in a tight and joyless retirement despite the face we are contributing as much as we can into workplace pensions.

No, the Aussie pension is not given to everyone. There is no minimum that everyone gets. It is thoroughly means-tested.
The Aussie pension was means-tested for most of its existence. Changing the UK system would be a different kettle of fish.
Governments will go for triple lock, anything perceived an extra, as in the case of the WFA.

Means-testing in Au is a fucking nightmare, with the pension going up and down as income changes and a tax return has to be done.

Look at the welfare outgoings.

People moan about the unemployed getting £390 month to live on etc etc

But that makes up an absolutely insignificant amount of the welfare bill. Something around less than 1% (it's been a while since I looked)
Then compare it to pension payments .. they make up something like 80% of the welfare bill.

The government punish and kick the unemployed to appease those who have never actually looked at the figures, but they do little about the pensions... It'd be a massive money saver, way way way more than keep cutting the amount t the unemployed get, but touching pensions is vote loser...

Bollocks. I am just about to get mine. The letter says "Dear ...... You are entitled to a State Pension of xxx.xx per week. It goes on to say that I am getting a bit more than the minimum, because of my NI contributions. It's there in black and white.

I think the fair thing to do is to create a new public DC pension fund, that everyone joins by default, with employers forced to enrol everyone at a minimum of 10% of yearly salary. Then they could means test pensions for anyone starting work. Then get rid of the triple lock - maybe replace with a double lock (inflation and median salary linked), with the potential to go down if both measurements go down.

I wonder how practically they could do this.

I can log into my government gateway account, and it tells me how many more years i need to pay NI, how much my pension would be, and when I am to receive it.

That creates a legitimate expectation and would tie them up in judicial reviews for the foreseeable

Of course you are entitled, under current rules and at the rate they set. If you change the criteria for entitlement (means test) or the level of payment (triple lock etc), which any government could do at any time, then that’s that.

I don’t think the current government will do that, for what it’s worth, but over the next 20 years? Not a gamble I’d take.

It's difficult because clearly the currently model is not sustainable. I realise that my contributions are currently funding the pensions being paid out at the moment.

But when you log on to your Govt gateway account, it literally gives you your state pension forecast based on your current contributions. Another 5 years to go and then I'll have my full 30 years stamp paid. So I think I can be forgiven if I feel a bit aggrieved if the rules were to change and I end up getting nothing in return for that.

Badenoch mentioned means testing but wasn’t at all clear - don't think that qualifies as Tories ‘mooting’ it.
Where have you seen Labour suggest it?

It’s a social contract, those saying “you haven’t paid in” yes we have, our contributions are paying for the current state pensions on the understanding with the government that the generation below pay ours. If there are going to be radical changes to the state pension it would have to be for people entering the workforce not people who are leaving it.

Don't trust anything from the Government that tells you when you'll be entitled to your state pension - just remind yourself of the Waspi women (I'm not getting into a discussion over whether what happened was right or wrong, just pointing out that they planted the goal posts and have proved they can be moved at any time).

Through my taxes I've paid for people who can't and don't work my whole life. I've paid for education, for the NHS, for children and families I don't know, for people experiencing mental health probs, for people in prison, for people who have and never will work a day in their life.

I'm more than happy to do this. BUT my pension payments are MINE. It's something I pay for that I expect to get back. I am more than happy that my taxes help others but when it comes to my pension, I think it should be protected. I don't want my pension payments to be given to someone that my taxes have already supported their whole life.

I know that may sound mean but I'm a middle earner. I've worked hard. I work in mental health and have done my time working for the NHS. I've done my time paying taxes to support others and will continue to do so.

But when I reach 67 I want my pension payments back as a full state pension. For myself. I deserve it.

It seems to me sometimes that there is no point working in this country because the more you work, the more you pay for everyone else and if the pension is removed then what exactly has been the point in working when I'd have been better off in a council house having other people pay for my existence my whole working life and then when I retire.

As a working person I'm happy that my taxes help others. But when I retire I want something back for me.

I am NOT happy with this suggestion of removing the triple lock. Not happy at all. But then again, I have and always will hate the Tories.

I don't. The point I was making was in response to people saying that contributions made now are not 'paying in'.

If anything does change there'd have to be a long lead time to allow people to amend their retirement funding plans. Look at the problems caused by the WASPI changes

I literally paid additional years because when I logged into HMRC it said my NI contributions weren’t likely to be enough to get full state pension, so I’ve no idea what you’re on about. Millions of people log in and check and back pay extra years.

I couldn't have put it any better, thank-you.

I think they will shift the age back again, and change expectations going forward

I agree that the state pension forecasting etc has created a "legitimate expectation" and any legislation could be robustly challenged.

But I am not against a reduction going forward, we have to somehow have enough public money in the pot to keep schools and hospitals etc going.