To think that campers in cafes are really, really annoying?

[LinnettdeBelleforte]

By 'campers' I mean people who sit for ages and ages after they have finished their drinks, either talking on the phone or on zoom on their laptops, or just chatting, while other people are wanting to sit down?
I was in a coffee shop today which is quite small and very popular. It's a bit cramped, but beautifully furnished, spotlessly clean, the coffee is great and the staff are lovely, so it's always heaving. I dropped in for a quick one this afternoon to find it heaving, so I said I'd wait for a table. There were four tables of people who were just sitting with empty cups. I waited for ten minutes and was about to give up when finally one couple got up and left. I then grabbed the table, which I shared with two gentlemen who had also been waiting. The woman next to us who had also been camping took the hint after about five minutes and left. I ordered my coffee and drank it over the course of about fifteen minutes. Over that time, one man was sitting on his laptop with an empty mug the whole time, one girl on her phone was the same. People kept coming in and then giving up, I drank up and left. The staff kept looking meaningfully at the campers who just blanked them. If I had been running the place, I would have a notice saying that at busy periods, people are required to vacate the table if they are not ordering.

Yes, 45 mins seems reasonable.

Spot on!
Simply don't get it

what is good business is variable sometimes regular customers are better than occasionally busy periods so it is a good business decision to let the regular stay with their laptop even when busy rather than the regular leave longterm as they were turfed out when busy for someone who maybe only visits cafe once a month
A cafe needs to decide what works for them not just that one day when really busy what works for them week in and week out. it also depends on how you pitch your vibe, your location and whether you are a tourist place with very little repeat business then someone getting offended at being asked to let someone share a table or they need the table will not affect your business or if you are somewhere where you know 90% of customers by name asking a group of regulars to leave as a group of randoms have come in a bit later and can't get tables might be a foolish business decision

How is it entitled to buy a coffee at massively more expensive than it would be at home or from a vending machine, because youd actually really like to spend time by yourself having a coffee?

Wtf are you on about? It doesn't make someone entitled. Its literally what these establishments are for. Why do you want some sort of conveyor belt system, so you can rock up whenever you want and people should hurry up and get out of your way?

You have no idea how much money they spend there overall and even if they didnt have much, they are still surely entitled to just spend a while with a coffee and not rush off. You don't know them or why they are there for longer than you have decided is necessary.

They are NOT entitled to spend time there with an empty cup, on a zoom meeting, while potential paying customers are waiting. As I say, the staff were clearly wanting them to move on. I don't know why people are so sure that they spend loads of money there and make it worth the cafe's while. They are just CFs and I would put money that this cafe will have changed its rules soon. It is only a few months old, the other very popular ones all have the rule that you have to move on when it's busy (not when it's quiet) As I and others have said many times, there isn't a problem when they are in the doldrums, but during rush hour it is just rude to hog tables and use the place as your private office.

Apparently Starbucks have a policy of letting people use their facilities without buying anything. Only know because it's just been withdrawn in America, article said it's still in force in the UK. Wonder if it's where the Campers got the idea from?

During Busy times it is common sense to vacate. But non busy times I do like to hang out and I usually stay and have a lot to eat etc so I am not that person with a glass of water. I woukd order a panini, cake and a large coffee. If I am spending £15 in food then I want to be able to sit for a while.

this i agree with, if its busy then the cafe needs the custom to stay in business

Is 5 or 10 minutes an ok time to sit though, I have to wait for a bit after drinking in order for the coffee to not come back up. But yeah 30 minutes seems a bit "I'm the main character and everyone else is npcs".

Afterwards? Surely you do those things while you’re drinking the coffee?

You’d look like a real CF if you put your empty mug down and just sat scrolling on your phone or reading a magazine while ppl were standing around with drinks wanting to sit and drink them. You must have a thick skin not to be bothered by the looks and muttering directed at you, even when it’s not exceptionally busy

I think its reasonable to expect that paying the typical "drink in" price of a coffee & cake in a decent café these days (~£10) gives you the right to sit down for 30 mins or so. Whether you actually consume your drink within 5 minutes or nurse it for 30 minutes is completely irrelevant.

The use of a table is part of what I'm paying for - if a cafe had a specific policy on how long you can stay I'd factor that in to my decision to pay £5 for something I can make at home for around 25p.

Zoom calls etc are clearly a different matter entirely, as is sitting on a laptop for hours on end having only ordered 1 drink.

Things aren't always what they seem. I was recently in a busy cafe, ordered food and coffee for five people. It took 40 minutes from ordering time for our coffee to arrive - so we were sitting there with nothing all that time. It took 90 minutes from ordering for our food to arrive - so we were sitting there with a coffee or empty cups for 50 minutes.

Let's just say, I will never revisit that cafe.

If I order a coffee I expect to have at least 20 minutes to quietly consume it. No-one goes to a cafe to gulp and dash. If I'm ordering food as well, I think an hour is reasonable with a friend. First come first served.

I agree campers in a busy cafe or pub are selfish.

I remember a cafe in Florence where customers paid extra to sit down so people stood at tall tables to sip coffee, eat a pastry and chat with their companion, then moved on.

I have previously said that my local coffee shop has a no under 16 rule. I can now tell you the owner is changing the WiFi to cut a device off after one hour and block said device for 12 hours. Absolute genius way to deal with campers.

I think the attitude of many of the responses on here are completely unrealistic. You can't put the financial needs of any business in the hands of goodwill from customers, nor on occasional staff members.

It's up to those managing the business to come up with the solutions to these issues. If they need to turn over tables quickly during peak times to be sustainable, they have multiple options.

Two obvious ones are some clear signage explaining how long customers can sit unless reordering another item, or raising prices for those drinking in vs take away taking into account the average length of stay.

Relying on consumers, who pay the same price regardless of time of day, to follow some unwritten rule to quickly vacate tables at busy times is not the way to run a successful business.

That's the norm in a lot of places in Italy and other parts of continental Europe

That sounds like a very sensible policy!

Why is it that you seem expect every cafe to have the same policies though? (the rules that you deem sensible of course 🙄)

Some cafes have rules that between 12-2 you must be consuming food to have a table. Others have a no laptop rule. Some insist you find a table before ordering. More still will expect you to leave quickly once you have finished consuming food. Other cafes value customers who park up and work for the day. Some like the Italian style espresso service…

they get to decide for themselves what fosters the environment they wish to create and type of customer they wish to have frequenting them. Some cafes hate the sort of customer you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about. Other cafes love them.

This cafe is not designed for campers, at least not on busy times. It actually is split into high stools and low tables. It doesn't serve food except for cakes, so the rule 'no drinks without food' wouldn't really make sense-the cakes are lovely but the coffee is the real standout. It looks a bit like an Italian espresso bar and is quite small. As I say, I could tell how frustrated the staff were getting at the CF campers and I think that management will change the rules quite soon. The cafe is only a few months old.

We used to have a whole day of baby-related stuff as a group of 5/6 of us.
Two of us would drop our older kids at nursery; then walk across town (leaving our cars at her house) with the babies in slings and meet up with other friends.
We would go to a “mummy and me yoga class” first of all, which was an hour in the community room of a cafe. Then we would go downstairs and “camp” in the cafe for an hour whilst we waited for another baby class to begin. That took place down the road at the town centre rooms (freezing cold, no chance of a drink and you wouldn’t want to change a nappy there!) so after an hour, we would all walk down to the baby sensory class.
Then we’d go to another friends parents cafe for lunch and straight after had a sling swing session in their “friends” room downstairs.
Then we would walk back up to the original cafe, “camp” out for another hour, having a chat etc and then we would walk back across town to collect the bigger kids.
It involved a lot of camping out in various cafes and waiting in coffee shops etc, but it was a day with my friends, my baby would get some stimulation, it was excellent exercise and great for us mentally. I made a point of buying at least a drink in every cafe we stayed at every week, although some friends couldn’t afford it every week.
We have never been asked to move on, nor have there been notices put up (it has been over 9 years though) as far as I knew.

Some CF put a post on our Local FB group asking for recommendations for a cafe with strong WiFi, comfy sofas near a socket, where the food and drink were excellent quality but cheaper than chain cafes that they could grace with their presence three days a week 9-4 oh and it had to be independent because they wanted to support local businesses.
When people commented they were being cheeky they said they would be buying at least 2 coffees and a cake.

but presuming the cafe will get that persons custom, and obviously the cafes not busy busy why is it cheeky ?

Visited a branch of Starbucks last week. It was fairly busy (a couple of 2 seat tables available but no big ones). Managed to get a table next a 4 seater one with 2 laptops, 2 coats and a set of keys on. I assumed the patrons were queuing or in the toilet. It turns out they were sitting chatting to other people on another table!

We were there 20 mins before they came over and took their stuff and left so they didn't even return to use the table. I thought it was pretty selfish and typical of the laptop brigade.

@RobinMcfly Well, two coffees and a cake isn’t a lot for seven hours using their space and electricity. They could at least buy some lunch!

For most people 'getting a coffee' is an experience. People don't want to be rushed.

Clock watching people when they have spent £4+ per drink doesn't create a good atmosphere. You don't know what they have already ordered or are planning to order. I wouldn't be happy either you breathing down my neck.

Sounds like you'd be better at a drive thru Starbucks