Would you find this job situation unreasonable?

[Redvelvetdreams1]

In a job I'm not enjoying, unsure whether to stick it out or look for something else. I'm a trainee atm.

Anyway I booked annual leave 2 months ago for very start of Feb which was approved by my manager. We've received an email this afternoon saying that there will be mandatory training sessions on between 5 and 10 days of each month and that we are strongly encouraged to not take any annual leave on these dates.

So first of all that limits our leave use heavily. Next of all 2 of the dates are in Feb during my holiday but as I say this leave was approved prior to getting any sort of mention of these dates.

They've even put please make every effort to attend even if it's on your non working days. What if you have childcare etc?

They've even said if you miss any of these dates this could affect your chances of finishing training.
I'm not sure what they expect, the email also has a general arsey tone speaking to people as if they're children.
I understand they get time wasters etc. But I hate that whole 'YOU MUST have cameras on for EVERY meeting.'
'DONT think you can answer the door just because you're working from home.'

I dislike the job anyway but this has annoyed me. I don't have much office experience, does this sound like standard work protocol or not?

Fuck that. I’d reply saying you have a foreign holiday booked and your leave was approved previously

Sorry meant 5-10 days of each month between now and August.

If they want you to do training for the Company on a day that you usually don't work then they have to pay you. If they don't want to pay you don't do the training its that simple. As for your holiday it was booked and authorised prior to this email with the new information, so you just need to say sorry unable to do any of the training dates in Feb prior holiday commitments.

My opinion would vary depending on whether this was in-house training that is useless to me outside of the role, or if it's training that I can carry forward to other roles in the future and improves my skillset/CV.

If it's the latter, I'd be happy to be offered 'free' training, would suck it up best I could - wouldn't cancel any pre-booked leave for it, though - and use it to strengthen my position to move roles after August, if I disliked the role.

If it's the former, I wouldn't be enthusiastic but as long as it wasn't causing me huge inconvenience, I'd play the game. If something crops up and I need a training day off, I'd cross that bridge and argue my case when the need arises.

The SAME training sessions each month, or DIFFERENT training sessions each month?

Different sessions each time, and it's just training specific to this job unless I work in this industry again.

Pre-booked leave should still he allowed to be taken. But if I was your line manager i probably wouldn’t let you have any more leave on training days going forwards, otherwise you’ll presumably fall behind?

Keeping your camera on in meetings is considered good etiquette where I am.

Yeah that's fair enough. Just feels a bit out of order saying you can't take any leave for these 10 days in March. Then it'll be more of a fight to get the existing days off between other staff.

Plenty of workplaces have a leave moratorium over Christmas, or other key times in the business cycle. This is no different, as long as they honour your pre-booked leave there are no issues here, just frustrated managers who sound sick of pisstakers who turn their cameras off then going off to answer their door etc.

Are they paying people if they come in to attend on a non working day?

Personally, I'd attend if I was already scheduled to work that day only. If it was a non working day, or an annual leave day, they'd not see or hear from me.

Yeah over Christmas I've had before and can understand. But this is almost a third of every month for the next 7 months, just seemed excessive. Anyway not much I can do really, apart from hopefully find another job.

That’s just reality in lots of workplaces I’m afraid. You can’t always take the days you want, for all sorts of reasons.

I’m sorry you’re not enjoying the job though. Will it lead onto anything you might prefer?

I'm not sure if they're paying people attending on their non working days, just said they 'expect flexibility'.

Basically I have to fill out about 20 different forms and reflective statements each week saying how I've met certain standards and create portfolios of evidence etc etc.

I'm also called an 'apprentice' in various documents and emails but I won't be receiving any formal qualifications.

I booked a holiday which was approved 2 months ago, now yesterday they've announced training on these dates I'm on holiday.
I had a meeting today where they asked if I was still intending to take the holiday, to which I replied yes, I am.
I was told that extra/sweep up sessions may not be offered and this may impact the date I can finish my training/'qualify' even though I won't be gaining a qualification. They are a joke.

Find another job pronto. It’s not worth staying in a job that’s making you unhappy and unfulfilled.

I've looked into this, recently. The law is not on your side, I'm afraid. An employer can dictate when you take paid leave. They can also cancel leave, but they 'should' give you twice as much notice as the length of leave you are taking, i.e., if you have a week booked off, they should give you two weeks' notice, prior to your leave, that it's cancelled.
Check gov.uk and ACAS websites for info.

That’s sounds totally bizarre. Especially if there’s no actual qualification or change in status for it. What’s the point? Apprentice to what? at the end of the “training”

Take your holiday and I’d treat this sort of thing as entirely to be done if it suits your hours.

To be honest you sound hard work and quite entitled. You are a trainee therefore you need training. You must have known this was part of the process when you took the job. Training is always an expensive outlay for a company and organising it a logistical nightmare. It is also a good indicator of those that are prepared to be flexible, put in the extra effort and will probably go far in their careers.
They shouldn't make you cancel pre-arranged leave but going forward you could be reasonably expected to work around the training.
And moaning that you need to keep your camera on is one reason the wfh privilege is now being removed for so many.
You should leave this job ASAP before you waste anymore of their time. Good luck finding another one that is crying out for your abundant talents.

You booked the leave. It was approved so take it.

Having your camera on, I fully agree it. It's rude not to. You wouldn't show up to a face to face meeting and turn your back on people.

You're away on holiday. It was booked before the training was announced. Not a lot they can do about that.

Put your camera on during Teams calls and look engaged. It boils my piss my piss when people don't do this. I assume people are doing other things because why would they not ant to be seen?

What sort of job is this? Is it an apprenticeship s they can legitimately pay you less?

Are you sure you're not receiving qualifications of some kind?

You said you're a trainee, but trainee what? All those reflective statements and portfolios of work plus several training days a month are fairly standard apprenticeship criteria.
Who's delivering the training? Is it an accredited provider? And do you have any kind of coach you meet with regarding your progress? Something isn't adding up here.

I completely understand the need to have cameras on, not arguing against that, I just meant the tone of their emails is a bit much.
Definitely not receiving any qualifications. In reply to a PP I'm fully aware that training was required but it's hard to know exactly what a job entails until you start it.

We're called apprentices in some emails but there is certainly no recognised qualification or even an internal one. Just training in order to do this specific job. Promotions are blocked for 2 years, after 2 years I could apply for promotion elsewhere though I suppose.

Looked at the provider and it's just a generic learning management system.

Don't want to say in case it's outing but this training is to be an EO in the Civil service.

When are you supposed to do your actual job if you’re spending 10 out of 21/22 working days on training? That’s what I find bizarre!