to be struggling with 11yo DD (suspected ADHD and/or ASD) and shitty family dynamic

[HippyKayYay]

I know I'm probably not BU, but maybe I am and I just need to (wo)man up? Sorry this is long. (TLDR: ND tween is making family life toxic - will it ever get better, if so how?)

DD is having assessments for ND (ADHD and ASD). She's fundamentally lovely - kind, eager to please, generous, caring, creative. But she's also, and has always been, very demanding (of us) and 'full-on'. That manifests in lots of way - talking a lot, interrupting, asking a million times about future arrangements, wanting things 'just so', feeling hard done by, feeling left out/ left behind, complaining (oh, the endless fucking complaining), telling us the same thing multiple times, telling you something you've just told her, needing to show/tell us everything she is doing/ has done, holds grudges. ETC. After 11 years of it I'm fucking exhausted.

Unsuprisingly, things got tougher when she went to secondary. She started having meltdowns at bedtime (never had this before). She doesn't go to sleep until quite late (despite our best attempts), she often kicks off at lights out (waking up her younger sibling) because something 'isn't right'. She can be argumentative, explosive and downright rude to us if she's disregulated or very tired. Trying to put a plan in place with her is like trying to lasso smoke (I think due to the way her mind works and issues with executive functioning). As a result, despite our best efforts to put in boundaries, telling her she can't kick off at 11pm or scream at us in the morning because of <insert whatever it is that day> it doesn't actually change her behaviour. I often dread her coming home from school and utterly dread getting her to lights-out time. DH and I have no evening. It's worse than when the DC were babies/ toddlers as now DD is awake until 10/10.30 demanding our input/ support/ attention.

DH and I are utterly utterly wrung out and really really stressed a lot of the time. Her 9yo sibling is increasingly anxious and unhappy (in part that's their personality, but also due to the amount of shouting and arguing and being woken up at 11pm) and is starting to school refuse. The atmosphere at home is often toxic and we feel like four people individually struggling to keep our heads above water rather than a family unit. We can't seem to do stuff all together because the DC start fighting or DD gets hyper and things get out of control. And also the DC just aren't into the same stuff. We can't even do family movie night anymore because we can't find a film they'll both watch. They are both incredibly stubborn.

Has anyone been here and can tell me how/that things get better? How can we make family life more harmonious? Once DD's assessment reports are in I can look into more support for her (counselling, or school-based stuff). Younger DC would benefit from therapy, I think, but point blank refuses to entertain the idea. I'm in therapy (have been since I had a breakdown about 18 months ago). DH is stoic and just keeps going.

I don't want this to be my (family's) life but I don't know how to make it better. :(

Another thing i practice with DS1 (asd) and DS2 (adhd) is “wide and low”. As in the boundaries are wide but you cannot breech them and the bar is low but you must step over it.

So in your case the boundary would be losing it at bedtime is not acceptable but having a parent sit with her whilst she went to sleep is fine provided she is calm. The bar set would be not disturbing siblings who are sleeping but if that needs you or your husband to wait with her then that is fine.

the boys were a lot younger when we started practicing this so not sure how well it would work with an 11 year old.

Ah OP this sounds really like my AuDHD 13yo. He really dominates the dynamic of the family! We finally managed to get both diagnoses and are about to start ADHD meds, really hoping they help. Don't have anything useful to suggest as it sounds like you know already. Find some support for yourself, it can be exhausting! I go to an online autism parent support group.

OP - I feel for you as I also have a DD who has autism who is sometimes (especially before we low demand parented ) use to suffer horror show meltdowns.
We use the mantra 'It's a reason not an excuse'.
Basically we make reasonable adjustments for her autism and we are understanding when she gets overloaded. For some particular triggers ( eg airports ) we work very very hard to ensure she is as least stressed as possible.
HOWEVER
Her sensitivities are not a reason to be rude or horrible to others or not to pull her weight on reasonable activities and tasks.
It sounds like it's got horribly out of balance here - and she is old enough to say it straight.
I will support you in x and y and will tuck you in at 10pm or whatever but it's not ok to shout and scream and wake your sibling up, Be very firm, Get your DH to help. Get external help to reinforce if you need to. Sending love x

Some good suggestions here, all I can add is solidarity.

What really resonates is the despair you're feeling. 3 ND teens here and we have been through an evening meltdowns phase from my PDA child. It was horrific. I felt so isolated when people would suggest firmer boundaries or to 'just ignore'. They had absolutely no idea of how a meltdown would brew and my DD would end up completely out of control, how this impacted her siblings and DH and I.

Keep working on your own therapy and whatever survival strategies (exercise, walks, quick coffee alone or with an understanding friend, any kind of hobby if you can fit it in) you can to top your energy reserves up. You're doing so well to address your own emotional responses. I am doing the same and it is such hard work.

Things have got better for us in many ways, the diagnoses and recommendations have helped my DDs. They all have reasonable adjustments made for them at school and we are all aware that they need some at home too (not always easy for them to accommodate each other though). The pill has helped one DD and Sertraline another. We have always divided and conquered since they were tiny (they are v close in age) and continue to do that in order to have outings/holidays/generally survive.

You're definitely not alone, I really struggle with how hard it is for us to coexist in the same house sometimes but things are more peaceful more often than they were a few years ago.

Thank you all for the reassurance and support. It is indeed lonely at times and I feel our social world has shrunk dramatically as DD has begun to struggle more. We’re just not fun to be around.

This sounds very familiar except DD age 12 is actually doing pretty well right now (allll the digits crossed and wood touched).

The one thing I would say is your DD will be exhausted. Trying to cope with new big school is tiring enough without ND. Sounds like most of the worst happens late evening which isn’t surprising. Bedtime is, I think, absolutely key.

My mantra with DD is that whatever is going on, whatever the problem, she needs to go to bed on time. After 8.30/9pm anything that hasn’t already been done or talked about needs to wait for the next day. Nothing constructive ever happens after that time, everything descends into stress and shouting. So it is bed bed bed. Usually if I can get her to bed at this time (by 9 - she is up at 6.45) she zonks out quite fast. If your DD doesn’t then do try melatonin.

Physical exercise also helps, of itself and also because it helps with sleep. Does your DD do much sport? Anything you could encourage? You’ve said she could walk to school but it’s a rush - does she walk home? This may help with regulation.

Check out of her symptoms for PMDD.

I have a little one who has ASD, a few years younger than yours.
What's worked for us is melatonin, visual timetable for bedtime routine (for a little while), weighted blanket.
I bought a satin pillowcase, which my little one loves, he is very specific about how things feel. I find that he doesn't know how to articulate this, so I give him things to try (not at the time of about to use them, and ask him if they are "good")
Id suggest loop earplugs for your daughter who isn't neurodivergent, so she gets her sleep. They are really comfortable to sleep in.
Hang in there. It is all trial and error and you have to relax, try things and know it's going up take time to get where you want to go, do things that work for you at a family (that might not necessarily be traditional parenting). Above all you have to rest and look after yourselves too, burnout is very common and my husband and I had this.
You're doing great, this is tough stuff.

I could have written this, you are not alone. I have no advice, just an hand hold
Our 13 yr old will not attend her private school so we’re forking out fees for nothing. She is bright and able but currently is doing very little. She won’t engage with any support and there are delays to getting diagnosis’ even when private. Because she won’t got to school she is always here. She is upsetting family life to the point we’ve considered separating to give our other two children a break from her. She’s so rude to me, think you’re a fat fucking failure and violent if we issue consequences for device removal. She took a hammer to our bedroom door to try and get her phone which resulted in armed police attending the house. I called them out of sheer desperation - the other kids weren’t here thankfully.
She’s suffering, we’re suffering and it’s crap. She urgently needs medicating. My husband who has the patience of a saint is beginning to crack up - I already have and am on my own numbing antidepressants now. We’re scared of her, so are her siblings, it’s a pretty desperate time.

That sounds incredibly rough @Lettie365. Will her current school support you applying for an EHCP to get her a placement in a school that does meet her needs? They can't just sit and suck up the fees while not even attempting to help.

I have a friend whose son was in a similar position in terms of terrifying his siblings and the family on the brink of separation. She got his EHCP and managed to get him into a residential school specialising in children with his needs. She had to tell social services that the alternative was section 20 care (putting him into voluntary foster care) but she got it, and the whole family including him are much much happier. He has the support that he needs, is accessing education, and has developed social skills beyond what they had imagined.

@Lettie365 we were in a similar position a couple of years ago. Neighbours called the police a couple of times due to the noise of DD2's violent meltdowns. She also called the police herself on DD1 who hit her during her own meltdown which was triggered by DD2 screaming and demanding outside her door.

Things have got better with a combination of meds, therapy (she has stopped engaging now although I have my own sessions) and simply time passing. She said at the end of last year 'I don't want to fight with DD1 anymore' and since then she has been less confrontational.

I have suggested us separating multiple times to give the whole family some peace but DH is not on board at all.

I do wonder some days how we keep going, but we do. I have lost a few friends as I'm sure it's really difficult and boring hearing my doom and gloom, but one or two have really been there through all of this shit and I treasure them.

Long waffle to essentially say you're not alone and keep going.

Sorry to hear about what you're going through @Lettie365 and @JoeySchoolOfActing - both of your situations sound incredibly difficult. We're working on a day-by-day basis at the moment.

Our social life/ world shrinking is something I'm really struggling with at the moment. We used to socialise a lot with other families - lots of lunches, impromptu drinks in the garden, etc. Now that happens less and less and less to the extent that we're rarely invited anywhere and we have to instigate any social interaction. Makes me feel very lonely and sad.

@HippyKayYay what would your DD do if you invited people round

@Uberaddict depends on who it is and what the context is. Her sibling had a friend over a few weeks ago who did something that annoyed her and she lost it at them, for example. If it's her own friends then she can get very hyper. If we have adults round without any kids (e.g. grandparents/ aunts) she will interrupt us all the time and not let us have a proper conversation. Although sometimes she is fine.

The issue at the moment is that I can't be sure she won't kick off when we have people over, and if she does it's very stressful (and embarassing, depending on who it is) and it just creates a situation that I then have to manage/ get her to decompress from/ explain to others. And because of that, the atmosphere at home isn't a warm, happy, convivial one and we're not fun/ relaxing company at the moment...

Thanks@HippyKayYay. Things have improved a lot for us thankfully, but I relate hard to your feelings of isolation.

COVID naturally stopped socialising for us, which in 2020 was getting as difficult as you described. We've never really got back into it. But tbh, we do all have some friends and socialise with them on our own terms. We don't have much family, we visit them but not all together or have one or two family members over for short periods. Christmas we have and do very few visits. We try to catch up with people earlier in December or in January and that works for us.

I miss socialising with DH mainly, but we are tentatively booking some stuff just the two of us and leaving the kids at home/doing their own thing out and about (they are all mid/older teens now)

It's a bloody long slog, but I hope hearing some positive stories gives you some hope. We really have hit the depths of despair on multiple occasions but things are improving.

Also to add, I avoided socialising with anyone who was judgemental about any of the kids losing their shit. Basically stopped spending time with one grandparent as they obviously disapproved and that made it so much worse. Now my kid is older and much calmer I am glad we made that choice.

@Lettie365 dear goodness, you poor thing. This is so horrible but it's happening so much behind closed doors. I'm no professional but everything here screams medication because what other alternative is there tbh.

I agree with the poster who said stick with people who won't judge and push away those who don't get it or will. Best thing I did. And when things are calm again, which they will be with the right input, you might be able to offer others back in.

Oh yes, and I've also had the splitting up the family conversation with DH! I know that's not really an answer as it would create more upset for the kids, but sometimes I think that divide and conquer is the only way we'll survive.