Dentist annual salary??

[Milsonwilson]

So it seems as though lots of people are wanting to become dentists lately including a friend of mine. She is thinking of a complete career change as there's "so much money" to be made in it.

I've had a little look and can't seem to find the average annual wage for a general dentist?

Is this true? Is their wage that high?

I know there would be money to be made if she opened her own practice. But what about on a employed basis?
Anyone have knowledge of this?

I’m now retired from NHS dentistry, I had my own practice but sold it when I was 55. Not only do you have all the stress of the job but on top of that the stress of running a business and all that entails.

Patients do have unrealistic expectations, my old boss ( I bought the practice from him) maintained that most patients assumed his nurse hung him up on the hook behind the door when she left for the night. Then took him down the next morning. I had a new tumble dryer delivered the other day and the driver recognised me as his childhood dentist adding that he “hates the dentist”. It’s a phrase that I would love to have had a £1 for every time I hear it.

As for earnings, starting income is around 40k which is guaranteed if you go into general practice as a vocational trainee. After that you become self employed and are basically paid according to the volume of work whether NHS or private. Most recently qualified will earn £80+ after building up a list of patients, working 5/6 days a week.

I never wanted to work full time once I had a family so my average earnings were around £60k a year but as a practice owner I accumulated capital in the business so had a big payout when I sold up.

I have a comfortable NHS pension and continue to work privately for one day a week. I have done a few months of maternity cover for the hygienist.
One day a week privately nets about £27k annually, before tax, hygiene one day a week can add another £20k a year.

A full time hygienist can earn 80k a year. It is very repetitive, but you work under prescription so less stressful.

Dental therapists are increasing in numbers, again you work under prescription and do some of the easier clinical procedures such as fillings, simple extractions and hygiene work.

It is a high earning profession but does come with a downside. Two dentists from my year have committed suicide, another two from the year above have also taken their lives. Not necessarily due to the job but from the general level of stress it causes.

You do have to have infinite patience and be supercool in an emergency, something that has come in handy in my personal life. When my DH had a stroke my brain kicked into work mode and I identified the symptoms immediately, knowing what to say to ambulance control meant that DH was in the stroke assessment unit and CT scanner within an hour and had had clot busting drug in under 4hours so was able to walk out of hospital after 3 days.

You do have to be a part time psychopath though. The things we do need the ability to switch off at times otherwise you wouldn’t be able to do it. It can make you appear to lack empathy, but when you e just seen a patient who is coming to terms with loosing part of their face to cancer it’s hard to be sympathetic with everyday problems but we are very good actors. I have known some of my patients for decades and treated generations of their family so I do end up in tears comforting them on occasions. And in the early days it was difficult not to take it home, but over the years I’ve learned to leave it at the door.

I've always thought it must be an interminably boring job with all that filling and drilling whilst patients breathe their germy, probably often times, smelly breath near the dentists face. It isn't a job I'd want to do for all the money in the world.

In 2021 I was diagnosed with breast cancer er and had to take 4 months off, recommended and urged by my consultant who said that “my mind may not be in the best place for carrying out dentistry”.

I didn’t really want the whole world knowing why I was off but as we live local to the practice my DH was inundated with people probing as to why I was off, asking if we were having a fancy holiday etc. He is a very private person so was not happy and told people to mind their own business.

When I returned to work and had been declared cancer free I was happy to tell people if they asked. Most didn’t but some were very insistent.

Our medical colleagues are often amused by most dentists first question after they are diagnosed with health conditions. Most patients want to know how long they can take off work, dentists always ask how quickly they can return to work. It’s not just the money but the build up of patients waiting to be seen.

After having 8 months off when I had DS and despite having a locum, most patients waited for me to return. My waiting list for an appointment was 6months at one point and took several years to return to my normal 6 weeks when working predominantly under the NHS. I used to have a day off but would use it to do private treatment if people wanted private treatments.

In my younger days before the new contract I remember seeing 80 patients in one day just before Christmas. I was never motivated by money but had built up a good reputation which comes with high demand. Being a soft touch doesn’t help. I have always been guilty of doing far too much for no charge. But patient trust is a good practice builder.

Dental technician is another option where you can be in the industry without having patient contact. There's a lot of exciting developments in digital scanning, 3D printing and AI assisted modelling so technicians who are proficient in those field will be in high demand.

DH is a dentist with his own practice and does a turnover of 2M per year, with approx. 400K going to him. As many here have said, it's very stressful but honestly not as bad at the work general doctors or surgeons deal with. For starters your patients can't die on you and there are no night shifts or unpredictable emergencies.

Speciality is also very important. A "family dentist" earns significantly less than someone specialised in implants or veneers. So it's best to specialise fairly early on and do additional training or courses. Orthodontics can also be quite lucrative with things like Invisalign which are essentially entirely outsourced.

A salaried dentist might earn around £50-100K depending on experience and working hours. I think his first job out of uni was £60K at a hospital. Most are self employed though and you have to do your own taxes. You get hired as a "freelancer" by a clinic or hospital so you can decide on your own working hours. It's not unusual for someone to work in 2 or even 3 locations at the same time, but the end goal for many dentists is to own their own practice.

Dentists tend to earn a lot later in life, in their 50s-60s. If they have a well running clinic they can accrue a few million fairly quickly. Most younger dentists have a huge amount of debt and investment so they're just working to pay those off. Equipments break, things need upgrading, IT issues and staff leaving all contribute to stress that has nothing to do with the job itself.

Ah angrymum you just beat my 75 patients in a day pre new contract and pre spending more time writing stuff up than doing!

My worst health thing was working with a burst appendix until the weekend when peritonitis has set in really well, that nearly didn’t end very well.

I locumed for a colleague who was a single handed practitioner who was diagnosed with oral cancer and worked all through including after radical neck dissection . He had to wear a mask all the time to hide the surgery .

His health board would give him no leeway with contract and he could get no locums as it is a difficult area to recruit in, so he had to keep working.

Eventually as he was getting iller with radiotherapy etc several of us colleagues took out a day each from practice to cover his practice and keep him going. He died a few weeks later . The health board immediately withdrew his contract not allowing his widow time enough to sell practice and keep it going with colleagues help , his widow was left with a business worth nothing trying to sell it and dispose of equipment etc at one of the worst times in her life.

As I type this I can see this person whose last days were blighted by working and worries over what was happening to his practice.

Dental technicians train for five years minimum and have to be registered with the GDC and carry out CPD. They are incredibly skilled but it is a job that is loosing people every year as it is criminally underpaid (average wage around £30,000) and increasingly lab work is sourced outside of the U.K. where it is much cheaper .

First job out of uni is foundation training which now pays around £38000, DFT 2 which is second year and is in hospital earns £45,000 ish .

78% of dentists never own their practice and that percentage is increasing as buying a practice becomes increasingly unaffordable for associate dentists.

Dentists incomes go down in their 50s and 60s as they slow down due to mental and physical strain. See earlier graphic I posted.

Your husbands practice is earns , roughly, 4 times what the average practice owner earns , so is somewhat of an outlier.

Finally certainly you can earn more by specialising , but it comes at a cost , eg implant training and setting up equipment etc cost a few years ago around £250,000 and also comes with greatly increased indemnity costs . That is an awful lot of implants to place just to recoup costs .

To train to do orthodontics for three years will cost around £65,000 but you will also be earning nothing whilst you do it , so adding to a huge mountain of debt already .

Dental technician shortage link https://dentistry.co.uk/2024/01/09/the-curious-demise-of-dental-technicians/

pay https://dentistry.co.uk/2022/09/03/the-lab-expert-the-technician-salary-crisis/

I wouldn’t own a practice for anything! So stressful. I also wouldn’t work clinically more than 2.5 days a week. I would hurt too much and after my practice day I clench all night and wake up with a headache. And I have lovely patients and see a maximum of 20ish a day in a beautiful private practice with fantastic nurses. GOK how NHS cope. I did do NHS for 15 years though…and FT for 12 but I was younger then.
In 2020 my mental health was so bad because I was so worried about COVID and aerosols etc. I nearly gave up altogether but glad I didn’t. The fantastic Raj Rattan says dentistry is great as a hobby and I’m with him!

Most dentists are self employed so difficult to ascertain salary. First year as a "trainee" is £37k, how bear in mind the overheads- indemnity, paying off student loans etc. definitely takes a few years to get on your feet.
I'm a practice owner and earn a good wage. However increased interest on business loans, lab fees, fuel bills, employee Ni contributions increase, increased material costs etc mean that year on year any profits are decimated more and more every year.

It's extremely stressful. Since coming back to work after Christmas heart I've had to deal with:

1. Practice complaint. Nasty man being verbally abusive to staff
2. Accountant messing us about and miscalculatingHMRC liability for end of month
3. Short staffed ( huge recruitment crisis) and trying to navigate how to cover our on calls
4. Staff member handed in notice
5. Ill effects post surgery. Been signed off for five weeks but due to lack of staff have had to go back to work early as no cover for me.
6. Joints flaring up. Need a gp appointment to request tests but can't actually take any time off. Can't get through to gp in working hours

It's really miserable.

On the plus side, there's no better feeling when you fit a nice new crown or denture and your pt likes it

Dentistry is many things as a career but never boring.

It's interesting how much the comments here from dentists' wives differ from those of dentists and hygienists, particularly with regards to salary and stress.

I love my dentist. He saved my tooth, copes with me being very nervous and is extremely calming.

What would you have done instead if you had your time again?