To resent the cognitive dissonance that exists around climate change

[JacquesHarlow]

Let’s be real - will anything get better when folk’s priorities are usually about themselves?

Let me explain my rather emotional opening point.

There’s been lots of news this week unsurprisingly about how we had the hottest year on record last year. The last 10 years have been the hottest on record. Wildfires, floods, you name it - the earth is changing.

Yet here in the temperate, largely rainy UK, many people I see around me are very happy to have their head in the sand, while also bizarrely choosing just one or two lines of attack on the climate crisis to shame others.

One of the parents i know has an electric car. It’s nice, I’m happy for them. They also take at least five flight a year. They have three children.

Yet if you hear them talk about diesel cars… it’s as if the owners are personally killing everyone around them.

Now don’t get me wrong. Emissions locally are important, the air our kids breathe is important. that might be a focus.

However you see it in the choice of car journeys over trains, of large SUVs over a normal family car like a Golf.

The latter particularly grates. We have a huge climate crisis. Yet Joanna or Nicola has to have a Discovery Sport for her three kids because she needs to sit high up, it’s easier to load them in, and she worries about crash worthiness.

The history books will show that rather than looking up and out for each other, we’re actually turning more inwards. Our own personal economy will always triumph over needing to protect others. If I’m able to pay £400 a month PCP on a Dispcvery Sport, then “I’ll protect my family over anything”, even though the entire thought process is irrational.

We need to take fewer flights and more rail journeys. working from home should mean more walking to school as the commute has gone. instead we’re seeing more car journeys. More flights. More large purchases; throwaway electronics; fast fashion.

AIBU to think there’s a lot of cognitive dissonance and head in the sand about climate change in the UK, and spending power (and the choices it unlocks) is king?

I'm not sure if cognitive dissonance is the correct term.

The problem is that "Joanna and Nicola" (not particularly comfortable with the casual misogyny here, but...) are acting selfishly but entirely rationally.

Their children would be far safer and have better future prospects in a world without SUVs. However, in a world with SUVs their parents choosing not to have one has no measurable benefit to their children. If they are involved in a road traffic accident they could be disadvantaged from not being in one.

I'm not defending SUVs. I don't have a large car and have never had a large car. I'm just saying that it's not necessary cognitive dissonance.

If we want to change things (as we must) we must understand why people make the decisions they do. Appealing to people to act selflessly has not worked to date and there is no indication it will work in future.

The single largest individual impact we can all make is to have fewer children. One person who takes 5 transatlantic flights per year, eats meat and drives an ICE vehicle is still likely to have a significantly smaller carbon footprint than 2 car less non-flying vegans. A recent estimate puts the amount of CO2 generated by a typical western human at 58.6 tonnes per year. Meat-eating generates around 0.8 tonnes, using a car generates c.2.4 tonnes and a roundtrip transatlantic flight generates c.1.6 tonnes.

On a global level, supporting initiatives that enable women to control their fertility would reduce carbon emissions. I'm not talking about coercive population control measures - just access to contraception and abortion and healthcare initiatives that reduce child mortality. These measures both improve lives and have a measurable impact on carbon generation.

If we really want to make an impact on climate change (and it may already be too late) we need to start thinking big and global. We also need to start thinking about how we as a planet adapt to climate change. How are we going to deal with mass migration from affected areas and global food production?

I can't worry about climate change when we're about to witness a new nuclear arms race, potential nuclear proliferation and regional wars that could potentially expand.

Agree. The current government keeps going on about growth. Our economies cannot go on growing indefinitely- we live on a finite planet. We are already bumping up against the limits of the resources we are using- I believe this is why Western economies are stalling- because we've got as big and bloated as we can physically get already.

I would switch to more train and bus travel but both these services are almost completely unusable.

Example: Bus to work. 10 minute walk to bus stop. Bus stop has no sides, so potential to have to stand in the rain. Bus may or may not turn up at the correct time. It's expensive - about £5 for a day rider. There may not be anywhere to sit. It's dirty and crowded. Takes 40 mins to get close to work stopping at every stop, and then its another 5 mins walk to the office. Because of the bus schedule, I'm at work a bit too early. 55 mins total.

Car to work. 15 minute comfortable drive door to door.

Who on earth would chose the bus in this instance if they didn't need to? Working hours are long, and no one has this sort of time free. I try to only use my car when needed but honestly OP what is the alternative?

Yanbu. We are all guilty to some extent.
China is pumping out crap because people in the west buy it.

Able bodied people should be walking more, even carrying shopping home. That keeps people fit (better for the NHS) and cuts down on emissions.

This exactly. I think most of the a ti car people live in London or Manchester with loads of transport options

Untrue. The carbon footprint of someone in eg the USA is many, many multiples larger than someone in eg Chad. The problem lies with the overconsumption of individuals in wealthy countries.

The population argument is, however, an easy way to pass the buck. "It's not my problem- it's all those stupid people in developing countries who keep breeding!"

As a matter of fact, the birthrate has plummeted pretty much everywhere except for Sub Saharan Africa in recent decades. The "problem" now is that people are living longer.

There is NOTHING that one individual can do. It has to be driven by globally coordinated legislation.

We are manipulated to focus on nonsense like choosing an environmentally friendly mascara so that we can feel like we're "helping" when the steps that will actually make a difference are the only things that will make a difference, but are too big for governments to imagine or coordinate on -

banning:

• almost ALL private cars/car production and (replacing with affordable, electric, functioning public transport and enhancing/restoring rail networks globally)
• air travel - we should not be able to fly anywhere, really.
• fast fashion - you should never be able to buy a garment that has not been ethically and sustainably produced, and we need to dramatically raise the bar on that.

reducing:

• fossil fuel consumption to 25% - 50% of current levels at any cost.

But we can't coordinate on it globally, and nobody is motivated to do anything. So we buy environmentally friendly mascara and say "isn't it terrible what's happening in California".

we contribute a very very very tiny percentage in this country but saying that the bus services ran hourly in my village for years,since last year they have gone from hourly to every 15 minutes!big double deckers that are never full!.we have a station 2 minutes away,the mind boggles.

Absolutely. I am anti car, but I CAN be because I'm well off enough to live near the centre of a small city. I can walk/cycle everywhere, and taxis are plentiful on the rare occasions that I can't. Being anti car is definitely an indicator of privilege, which is awful.

Exactly. Blaming poor people in India and China who never had a car, never take planes, rarely eat meat, dont buy clothes and shoes every month is so distasteful when it's the rich that are causing the most climate change. The figures show that.

We buy a lot from China for example but realistically the only thing that reduces that is something like a tariff and that’s being floated elsewhere but it’s economically harmful

Do people really want a reduction in cheaper goods and increase in prices?

There are so many things that could be done that would be supported by the vast majority of people; things like demanding an end to built in obsolescence for example. I mean who really wants to replace their hob or washing machine every couple of years as opposed to every 20 years, so the CEO can buy another Rolex? Making gestures and choices no matter how small do add up and change our relationship to our natural world from an narcissistic one to a more reciprocal one. Indigenous tribes intuitively understand the interconnectedness of all living things and are caretakers of their environments. Neo-liberal capitalism sells us a lie that we don't need connection or society and this is harming us all. A return to socially responsible capitalism is doable and does not require a regression to stone-age ways of living.

Lol. You could say things like the pandemic are nature's way of population reduction. But humans do all they can to fight it Along with fighting nature keeping the very ill alive at all costs

I think the real issue is the lack of joined-up thinking and in the case of disasters, bad management overall. What I mean by that: it's really hard to get a full overview of what the real CO2 impact of a product is - and other environmental impact. For example, the electric car emits no particles or CO2 however if you think of all the crap that goes into producing its batteries, the human cost of mining those rare earth minerals (they don't come from countries with great human rights records, to say the least), and the total CO2 footprint that goes into producing them, I'm not convinced they're such a win for the planet. (This is a question by the way, I'd love to hear from knowledgeable posters that they are a great solution, but I'm personally not sure).
The other issue with the environment is that it's never just one thing. Usually disasters are a combination of climate factors like more extreme weather patterns and national and local government failures, and sometimes corporate greed as well. The LA fires are a prime example: there's awful drought in Southern California so the vegetation is extremely dry but this time last year they also had unprecedented floods following another very dry patch. So, clearly weather patterns are getting unpredictable. Yet, vegetation hasn't been managed properly for years, fire departments saw cuts at local authority level, and the human cost will be compounded by exorbitant insurance costs which means less well off people will have lost everything because they weren't properly covered. It's one example among many happening in the world. Look at the Spanish floods a couple of months ago and their toll, or Mayotte and the recent devastating hurricane. There's always a mix of nature getting more unpredictable and human lack of foresight/bad or insufficient resources. It's very complex and I don't see how we can improve things unless there's a real sense of international, national and corporate responsibility. Otherwise we'll all drown, burn and/or starve...

Two WHOLE books, ay 😆

The Earth has always been changing. We've only been here for a very short time.

Whatever we do as individuals is pretty pointless. Most of the climate lobby are middle class types with time on their hands.

Nothing is going to change unless it's done at a legal level and aimed at businesses and is a worldwide endeavour.
You want to blame a family using an aeroplane to see the world once a year?? We should be able to do this.. it's important. Aeroplane use is important.
What's not important is mass producing plastic tat, or raising then murdering thousands of cows that don't get eaten just chucked straight in the bin, so supermarket freezers look full.
Public transport should be nationalised.. imports should be considered luxury.. poverty in this country should be addressed so that people didn't need to rely on cheap mass produced goods and food.. and most of all BUSINESSES SHOULD BE LEGALLY REGULATED.

you can ban plastic straws and bags all you like but it's just a gimmick. Putting responsibility in the hands of individuals just feeds into all this capitalist nonsense. Until we work together on a grand scale it's going to have no effect
You can't buy your way out of climate change.. you can't blame ordinary people flying on easyjet.. all of this is just placing guilt on people so that billionaires can continue exploitation.

I would never holiday in Dubai because of its human rights record. But in all honesty this isn't really me being 'righteous', or because I think my not holidaying there will improve human rights in the place. It's because the poor human rights record means I think I would enjoy a holiday elsewhere more.

I suspect this explains the apparent contradiction: people are able to wear cheap clothes from China without thinking about the human rights of the workers who made them. But if you're driving through Dubai seeing stark contrasts of wealth, it's harder to ignore.

The cognitive dissonance so far as I’m concerned lies with the people who believe that tiny things we do like recycling etc in the UK worthy as they are, will make any significant difference whatsoever to the climate change risk - because while China, US and some developing economies continue to emit pollutants on an industrial scale, very little we do in our tiny country will make a difference.

I believe that the only thing that will help is the development of technologies to counteract or ameliorate climatic issues. People won’t make radical changes to their lifestyles.

When it comes to environmental impact every one is a hypocrite, which is just a fact as it’s almost impossible to live in our current society without having a significant negative environmental impact.

People get fixated on recycling which is almost irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, the best thing an individual can do to reduce their carbon footprint is to follow a predominately plant based diet but that requires what many view as a sacrifice they are unwilling to make.

It can be easy to think ‘well my eating meat is such a tiny proportion’ or ‘I really need a holiday and the flights only 5hrs’. People can make conscious choices that do have a positive impact but ultimately it comes down to governments implementing laws that force companies to take the more environmentally conscious choice and at the minute that’s not happening. There is a lot misunderstanding from the public and until individuals feel the direct impact they are disinclined to make choices that are more difficult. By then it will be too late.

My sister in the US has 4 cars. One for each member of her family.. No option because there is zero public transport.

The richest country in the world relies on 1 cars per person. Why would you expect a person in Nigeria to not even buy their first car?

As for hypocrisy, all of us internet users are very guilty as one of the worst CO2 offender is data. Cooling those mega data storage servers is one of the worst things for the planet. I believe air travel is much less than the total energy required by the internet which has doubled within the last couple of years. And AI will make that thousandfold because it runs on very large amounts of data... [edited for accuracy]

I think you can't blame people for buying cheap clothes from China if they are available.. and the government allows them to be available. People are struggling with the cost of living at the moment.
I hate to bring brexit into this but that's a part of it.. it's now cheaper to import goods from further away... goods of a lower quality that cause more pollution due to manufacturing and distance they are being transported.
We need countries working together but at the moment there's a very nationalistic shift...
Let's hope this government does some things right on a national level at least..
I'm excited to see efforts towards nationalising the railways for example. Things like this impact climate change.
I'd like to see more industry brought back to the UK and in state control.