Smart meters - good or bad?

[Allthenameshavegone1972]

What are your opinions on Smart Meters? I read of so many disadvantages that I really don't trust them. I read my meter myself & submit the readings monthly, in time for the bill to be generated.
I've been contacted today by Octopus Energy to change my meter as the RTS is being phased out. If I don't then my supply will be affected. This makes me so effing angry. We're being blackmailed into having a smart meter when we don't want one. 😡

so overall its more advantageous for the energy companies and the PowerStation's making the power but also needs a way to sell it to the customers ?

Surely most of the things I listed mainly benefit householders? For example, fuel gauges and trip computers in cars don’t, to my knowledge, benefit petrol stations. Gas-fired power stations are very happy to sell us all the electricity we want, and when demand is high, there’s often no alternative source. As we know, gas has been very expensive in recent years. The more electricity we can get from renewable (and nuclear) sources, the less expensive gas we’ll need to burn.

i was thinking more from a security analysis of the grid, eg monitoring power drains, monitor power spikes , where usage needs to be better controlled etc with that reguards to powerstations themselves, rather than the profit aspect of it all. that then having smart meters in theory would help improve the national security of the grid, especially cyber attacks etc

I don’t think they would ever attempt to control usage directly, and I’m not sure what you mean by power drains. Certainly, having aggregated consumption data from millions of households’ smart meters would make it easier for the National Grid to forecast demand and plan accordingly.

I had a smart meeter in my previous place. I did not have to go outside to read the meeter. However i had problems with my gas meeter. It would stop working if the temperature dropped below 0. This meant that there were times when i had no gas supply. I did get my boiler checked and there were no faults with it. My pipes were okay too.

PP pretty much covered it.

To add another thing - the move to electric vehicles are opening up a whole lot of energy tariffs that offer overnight charging at cheaper rates. These tariffs bill to half hourly data which is not possible to do with a non smart meter.

Try this: you'll get a lot of dumb sheep who haven’t got the first clue why they shouldn't be taking for gospel whatever is served to them.

You don't like being called a 'dumb sheep'? Then make an effort to find some more convincing arguments than personal insults.

Just a refresher: doctors peddling thalidomide also kept dismissing any questions with 'these pills are totally fine'.

Your comparison with thalidomide is ludicrous. Smart meters aren’t an inadequately tested medication. They’re the latest model of energy meter, which is replacing the previous type, just as digital television superseded analogue.

You just keep repeating the marketing spiel that boils down to nothing more than 'it's a new shiny gadget so it must be better' - never mind that those who work for the energy companies don't want these gadgets in their homes (search yourself other threads)

It’s a meter that automatically submits your usage data. The old system involves physically reading the meters, noting down the readings, and reporting them to the supplier. A great many people cannot do this regularly, accurately, or at all, for a variety of reasons. Clearly, a meter which eliminates this problem is a massive improvement. In petrol stations, the tills in the kiosk/shop automatically receive the quantity of fuel each pump dispenses. Are you suggesting this is inferior to customers telling the cashier how much fuel they pumped?

I’ve worked for energy suppliers; I have smart meters and I’m very happy with them, and the cheaper tariffs they give me access to. I’ve seen these ‘my heating engineer/meter reader/energy call centre agent says avoid ‘em’ comments, and I take them with a pinch of salt.

Except for rehashing the same marketing spiel, adding a disingenuous comparison with petrol pumps, you are as much convincing as before, as you keep forgetting to mention a small technical detail:

these gadgets include a remote ON/OFF switch that can operated by the energy company at any moment without having to go through the inconvenience of having to convince a judge that there is really enough arrears to justify a forced switch to prepayment meter. So it is a very 'mart device' - for the energy company.

You could also refresh your memory - it's not that difficult to find on the Net that thanks to having 'smart meters' installed, electricity companies were switching people to prepayment tariff on the slightest excuse with such abandon that OFGEM had to tell them off and request they calm down.

Or this inconvenient detail is not part of the script?

I spoke to octopus about this. It seems to be a non issue. All that’s happening is the meter will no longer change time for BST. So for half the year it might be an hour out in terms of allocating units between day and evening rates.

The guy I spoke to agreed the meter would
still work. And it “may” still update the time properly. Sounds like a big strong arm to me, to help them get more people on smart meter. And off these reliable old meters!

It's a government aim for every household to have a smart meter. I think some people believe the smart meter is the in home display unit. The smart meter is the meter itself and they replace legacy meters. You do not need to have your meters commissioned and they will be in dumb mode, like a legacy meter. With regards to RTS it's advisable to have your meter exchanged. When the radio teleswitch service is turned off in June, you could lose heating and hot water. If you have gas rather than storage heaters, you may still need the meter exchanging as if the rate gets stuck on the low or high rate, you billing will be incorrect. The benefits of smart, you are in control of your usage, having positive impact on climate change, accurate billing, access to better tariffs and bespoke tariffs in future

It MAY start MISBEHAVING?

oh please.

I have a relative with autism and learning difficulties who lives independently in a flat. Custom built highly energy efficient one bedroom flat with modern efficient heating.
His bills were astronomical, despite the heating hardly being on as the flat is very warm. Astronomical bills, as in 5 times my energy bill for a large old inefficient detached house.

They are still unavelling the whole thing. The meter is faulty, ombudsman involved. Now my relative is lucky that his mum is fighting her way through this for him. She won't always be around as the years pass and as a vulnerable adult he would have no idea how to sort this out.

I live rurally. many people are having smart meters foisted on them due to the RTS switch off. The reality is that intermittent internet makes the meters completely unreliable and people are facing ludicrous bills with no basis on their actual use.

I am refusing to have one.
I read my standard meter monthly. It takes 2 minutes, I check my unit useage and I know exactly if a bill is wrong.

yes, it depends on the wiring. An engineer can confirm that. If you don't have gas and rely on storsge heaters, you will be affected

(I work in metering)

Further up the thread I commented on how Octopus were bombarding me with phone calls and emails to change my old RTS meters. I resisted because I didn’t have storage heaters and the radio switch turn off wouldn’t affect me.

In the end I caved in and changed to smart meters. The little pink box octopus give you with the new meters has been a game changer. I can see just how much money I’m spending, hourly, daily, weekly, monthly. I have my dishwasher and washing machine on over night on cheap rate. I use my slow cooker and air fryer much more as they are much cheaper to use than my double oven. We regularly join in on energy saving sessions to get Octopoints, where we can get money off of the bill or other Octopoints offers (we’ve yet to spend any of these).

Having a smart meter has Definatly made me more energy aware. I should have done it sooner.

Yes. The person you spoke to at Octopus was mistaken. Many RTS meters, particularly older ones, rely on the radio signal to switch the storage/immersion circuits on and off every day. There are even tariffs where this is adjusted by the network, depending on the following day’s weather forecast. So, when the signal is discontinued, the heating will be permanently on, or off, with no means for the customer to change it. Plus, the meter will charge the same rate, day and night. The majority of RTS meters have probably exceeded their certification lives by now anyway, so are overdue for their legally-mandated replacement.

People don’t need to face “ludicrous bills” with a smart meter. They can read it and submit readings just like they did with their old one. If their bills are incorrect, it’s because the supplier isn’t receiving any readings and is using estimates instead.

Why is the petrol pump comparison disingenuous? We rightly expect, and are entitled to, properly calibrated instruments when we purchase petrol. Why should domestic gas and electricity be any different? Because you don’t like it? Please!

There is a remote on/off switch in many smart meters, but suppliers won’t use it because, guess what? They want to sell us energy. The more they sell, the more profit they make. Governments won’t cut us off for environmental reasons, as is often suggested, because they want to stay in government. Ted Heath imposed power cuts in the ‘70s (obviously long before smart meters) and was thrown out of office within weeks. And back then, people could get by without electricity much, much more easily than they would now.

It’s certainly true that suppliers can remotely switch customers to prepayment, in the event if persistent debt. It’s also true some suppliers abused this facility. Thankfully, as you say, OFGEM has put a stop to that.

What they don't tell you is that the gas meter gets worked via your electricity meter. It's usually the electricity meter that's getting it wrong and sending incorrect information to the gas meter.
They'll change the gas meter, but not the electricity. It drives the engineers mad, because they get the flack when they have to reattend, again and again. Especially if pre-pay because the cheaper companies only give £10-15 credit, even if there are multiple children/vulnerable people. They often change it to a non smart meter to check for fraud. Then, after a time period, back again.
My DD has lost £ hundreds, thanks to a faulty electricity smart meter that caused the gas meter to show no activity. It's OVO, who shouldn't be in business for pre pay customers.

@MemorableTrenchcoat were there are faults on meters, the cheaper companies go immediately to a fraud situation, which means they can do whatever is necessary. Ofgem is little use in those situations. My DD had out of date meters, she was treated really badly by OVO. Luckily she has good neighbours who could allow access, or it would have meant days of work to sort it out. Companies don't seem to want to admit that smart meters go out of date and that it's the electricity meter that runs the gas meter.

Suppliers make no secret of the fact that the electricity meter or, rather, the communication hub attached to it, ‘runs’ the gas meter. The gas meter runs off a battery which has to last for years, so everything goes via the communication hub, which has a permanent energy supply. It’s also no secret that the original SMETS1 smart meters were not that great and need to be upgraded or replaced. That’s not to say that your DD hasn’t received very poor service from her supplier.

@MemorableTrenchcoat how many supplies have you included in research to ask if they are making that clear? It might just be bad were my DD lives, but she's had three engineers out who have all said for some reason the companies change the gas meters but are reluctant to change the electricity meters. They don't listen to the engineers. None of the advisors at OVO are aware that the electricity meter runs the gas meter. The woman who oversaw everything from Mercia Utility services didn't know that either. The gas engineer told her.