Why do so many people criticise vegans?

[trunch]

I'm a meat eater!

However, I don't understand why people criticise vegans so much.

They aren't hurting me and are trying to save animals and the environment.

What's wrong with that?

Surely people should be more critical of me because animals are killed for me to eat?

Well you've obviously not read all the responses on here then!

Most people in the UK have a sub optimum diet. We consume poor quality meat products in too great a quantity, too much salt, sugar, alcohol and processed foods. We eat too much and are too sedentary. Genuinely, what is it about the vegan diet that makes you particularly worried in light of this? Because while vegans who don't eat healthily may lack some nutrients, what is omitted from the diet is a protective factor against some illnesses so at the very least it breaks even.

I think you have that backwards tbh. The planet is in trouble, I think you'll find that heavily imported food you eat will become too expensive for the average Jo, because it won't grow to sustain a massive majority. We're looking at some harsh decades coming up.

Veganism is THE solution for feeding the masses on a minimum of land vs meat. And much cheaper to produce than meat, air miles or not.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/may/13/george-monbiot-vegan-planet-britain-farming-fuel-plant-based-food

George Monbiot: ‘On a vegan planet, Britain could feed 200 million people’

Lab grown meat is probably the way forward.

Maybe right now, although I doubt it. But the planet is in trouble. What use is your fields of produce when a climate change fueled fire comes along and kills it off?

The utopia in your head isn't going to happen. You're more likely to eat what you can get a hold of in a chunk of time away rather than people giving up meat.

How the hell will livestock or animals you are suggesting we eat, have anything to eat themselves in the situation you describe?

The land for the food they are given to eat (grown on) could be used to feed many, many more people.

Absolutely huge flaw in your argument.

Much of that food is imported to feed cattle. Surely costs less to feed an individual on soy and pulses and beans and veg than to ship it accross for a cow to eat for a few years before we eventually eat the cow.

Beans, pulses, rice etc are some of the cheapest foods anyway.

Meat production is one of the worst ways to maximise food output on land. Firstly - grazing land, secondly food grown for them to eat, thirdly water they consume (and the plants for them to eat).

The calories obtained from all the intensive energy and resources that goes into animal farming is tiny in comparison to growing vegetables or grains - you can feed many, many more people on just a fraction of the land and water.

Also, check out Vertical farming.

https://www.edengreen.com/blog-collection/what-is-vertical-farming

The Benefits of Vertical Farming

Vertical farming has many benefits, with this model providing maximum output with minimal environmental impact and far less space required. With resources at a premium, it will become increasingly difficult to maintain food production using traditional methods.

Utilize Less Water & Space

With vertical farming techniques; farmers can use 98 percent less water and 99 percent less land. They can produce crop yields of 240 times that of traditional farms through year-round rolling or perpetual harvest. All of our produce is powered by the sun rather than LED lights, so these crops are not reliant on fossil fuels or other less ideal energy sources.

Countries like China are ramping up their production of meat and milk.

My land is ‘less favoured’ meaning not arable. My sheep eat grass and silage grown on the farm. We try and avoid feeding concentrates because they are so expensive. We are awash with water here in Borders Scotland.

I had a relative (a grown adult) who ruined a family buffet they were well-catered for as a vegan by trying to guilt-trip anyone eating anything else with sad tales of how prawns mate for life, and the food colouring in the dip came from insects. Funny now, but a downer at the time.

I don't know anyone that does criticise vegans generally - however I have pretty low tolerance for the ones that spend every opportunity to criticise /convert meat eaters.

I don't think it's vegans as a whole but those that tell you they are, insist on every time you go out it be at vegan restaurants rather than more general ones that cater for vegans and make everything about their veganism. No problem with you doing your thing but it's not my thing and don't ram it down my throat.

Whilst I appreciate this, there are huge amounts of other types of land throughout the world (and UK) that could be far more efficient for calorific output if converted away from meat production (and related animal feed crops etc) into vegetable or grain production. Not to mention the water use, environmental pollution etc.

And on LFA there are plenty of other vegan arguments about how best to use less favoured land - away from animal husbandry.

Please note this is not a criticism of your setup, but I am just pointing out that vegans have a lot of other ideas of how this land could be used without involving animals that would allow food production and be environmentally friendly. Some vegans say raising animals in these areas contributes to land degradation, inefficient resource use, and unnecessary animal suffering.

Eat meat/don't eat meat, drink alcohol/don't drink alcohol, doesn't impact me, just don't start lecturing me about my choices, live and let live 😊
I do feel for my veggie friend though as so often when she eats out the options are now with vegan cheese which she doesn't like, i don't think that's fair, there should be vegan options, veggie options (inc regular cheese) and meat options, cater for everyone. I feel veggies are getting pushed out a bit now so restaurants can keep their menu's down. (not the fault of vegans obviously)
There are also too many fake meats, surely if someone is vegan/veggie they don't want fake stuff?
We are reducing how much meat we eat though and do have at least 1 veggie meal for dinner each week and i rarely have anything with meat for my lunch.

Meat production is one of the worst ways to maximise food output on land. Firstly - grazing land, secondly food grown for them to eat, thirdly water they consume (and the plants for them to eat).

I welcome you to come and try and grow crops up here in the NW Highlands.

Globally, granted, chopping down virgin rainforest for cattle farming is twattery. But there are big chunks of the UK that are ideally suited for animal husbandry and create a far more harmonious environment than monocropping would. Far less herbicides and pesticides going into the soil as well.

Eat meat/don't eat meat, drink alcohol/don't drink alcohol, doesn't impact me, just don't start lecturing me about my choices, live and let live 😊

Livd and let live, not the animals though. Ironic.

There are also too many fake meats, surely if someone is vegan/veggie they don't want fake stuff?

I don’t eat the fake meats often, probably a few times a year, but why would you think veggies and vegans don’t want it? Most veggies and vegans I know haven’t given up meat because they don’t like it, they’ve done it because they don’t want to eat animals. Can you really not see why they would want a meat replacement product?

And this smug attitude is what is so annoying. It isn't easy. Animals still die eg rabbits eat crops so have to be controlled.

The easiest way to get B12 is via meat. It is very difficult for vegans to maintain B12 without supliments.

@sashh you do realise that the only reason animals have high b12 in most cases is because it is added to their feed?? In the form of a supplement??

Another one got the bingo card

And the b12 thing has been addressed. Animals get it from foil which many don’t have access to now. Animals are given supplements. May as well cut our the middle man and supplement directly if you’re going to supplement.

Not here to argue with you on this, and I am not an expert on your type of land or vegan farming, but I can guarantee you that there are vegans with ideas about how this kind of land could be used which don't involve animal husbandry. I watched several videos about it on youtube some time ago! But I don't personally know enough to debate it with you - but just wanted to say that there are definitely some vegans who have different ideas about this kind of land use.

Soil. Not foil. 🤣