Why do so many people criticise vegans?

[trunch]

I'm a meat eater!

However, I don't understand why people criticise vegans so much.

They aren't hurting me and are trying to save animals and the environment.

What's wrong with that?

Surely people should be more critical of me because animals are killed for me to eat?

And plenty of species of cattle, pigs, sheep have become extinct. The Suffolk Punch horse was at one point almost extinct, there were more pandas than them. Once they are gone we can't bring them back, we will end up with few animals. A few people keeping a few animals won't help, and who would care for 'wild' cattle etc.

I am a vegan 😆 so I am mortally offended by mass slaughter.
I think it is important that vegans use sensible arguments though otherwise it weakens the case.

Another ridiculous argument. Is it better to reduce suffering by say 80%, or is it better to reduce it by 0%? By your "hypocrisy" theory nobody should bother doing anything to help the environment / animals / whatever.

Let's all stop recycling because we can't get rid of 100% of plastic out of our lives. Let's not use technology, because of mining environmental issues, let's not wear second hand clothes because of factory labour.

Or more sensibly, let's reduce as much as we are realistically able, the suffering and consumption of meat products, plastics and so on, knowing that we have made a difference (maybe not 100%, but a lot more than doing nothing).

Well why don't you ask India?
Cows are sacred there. There's millions of them. No need for any cows here, they've got it covered.

We're not talking about just releasing them in this country xD

In the grand scheme of things, whilst sad, if a certain species does go extinct, its arguably still better than it existing only to suffer, be exploited and die at a young age, surely?

I guess there is some argument that maybe any life is better than none... in their hooves I wouldn't choose it though.

Absolutely this. Vegans seem determined to have a discussion about choices and point out why they think they are correct. Once worked for a little in a café with a vegan barista. The cafe's main seller was bacon rolls. This chap went on and on and on (while the boss wasn't there). Absolutely tedious.
Also many have a strange idea about animals in ecology. Obviously intensive farming isn't great but herbivores have a place in the ecology of an area. I've visited the Knepp, estate one of the early adopters of 'wilding' and they use pigs, dear and cattle to keep the balance of nature. Even then, they have to cull because of limited space.

I eat meat and am friends with a few vegans but it doesn’t generally come up in conversation. I think many people have a complex relationship with meat and dairy eating and vegans make them feel guilty in some way.

@Sharptonguedwoman Many ecologists dispute the helpfulness of farmed animals on re/wilded land; it's a debatable thing even if some rewilders or land projects use them. There are studies that show just leaving soil and nature (without the human introduction of animals) to do its own thing is the best thing for the soil and local environment even in the particular landscape types you refer to.

I’m not saying you need farmed animals, I’m saying that there’s a place for herbivores in the ecology of an area. Knepp don’t farm the animals as such, the animals are part of the ecosystem, as near to wild as can be managed.
Any culling is because of space. Too many deer or pigs are an environmental problem. In nature the excess animals would starve if the food supply ran out, which is pretty grim. Obviously the can’t have apex predators.

All the vegans I know IRL are lovely people who I respect, we differ on dietary matters, but agree on many others, and have long since agreed to disagree, and even when arguing we remained civil and friendly.

LIke any group though, including ones I'd be aligned to, there are absolutely dickheads within them, and they tend to be the ones with the loudest voices and end up being considered to be representative of the group as a whole.

I do have beef (I know, I'm such a comedian) with some vegan opinions that claim that it's somehow moral and ethical - there is no way of feeding 7 billion humans without killing other animals or damaging the environment - and while I agree that animal farming needs to have major changes to improve the way it functions, and beef farming especially is not sustainable environmentally, I don't think you can utterly condemn eating some animals, while condoning the crop farming of plants that end up killing other animals as a consequence, damaging their natural environment, or incur a fairly hefty carbon footprint in their distribution.

For me it's the lack of nuance. Already seen on this post. The UK has some of the best animal husbandry in the world, the lowest carbon footprint, the least industrial farming, but .... No credit is given for that, nor to those who eat as ethically as they can. Very few people will go full Vegan, but many people will try to eat their omnivore diet in the best way. Many vegan arguments are based on practices in other countries and by organizations and individuals who have an agenda, this applies to both sides of course, but vegans tend to not accept their biases, whilst lambasting pro farming lobbies etc etc

@KnittedCardi the thing is while some UK practices may be arguably "better" in ways you cite, on a scale of 1-100, for vegans any animal suffering is too much. And the impact on the environment, even for the cases you cite, the impact is still considerable and unnecessary and is negative for the environment. The impact is still bad. It is never truly "ethical" in our modern society (where fresh veg and grains are plentiful and available) to eat an animal. There is no animal farming that is free of suffering. Killing an animal always involves unnecessary suffering and vegans will never be ok with that whether it was raised on grass pastures, or in a factory farm - its life still ends up in cruel murder, in the abbatoir. Not to mention all the recent fuss about "RSPCA Assured" whereby undercover filming recently highlighted issues behind these so called "kinder" methods. I personally think that these so called "kinder" meat schemes are all a fallacy anyway. They still end up in death as well as the unkind practices (taking young calves from their mothers, dairy farm cow treatment and so on).

This.

My ex sil is vegan. Had 4 children. Drives a large car. Bangs on about saving the planet. Has a massive shopping habit and then hoards.

I eat meat and vegetarian options. I didn't have 4 children. I drive a lower pollution car. I recycle, volunteer and don't buy huge amounts of stuff. I don't go at her for her environmental fails but she always commented about damage cows do.

As a non vegan, i think it's a good idea for us all to consume less meat, given that last year was the hottest on record

My use of the word "farmed" was possibly the wrong choice. I meant herbivores that are introduced (whether semi wild or not) for the purpose of grazing to "improve the soil and environment" is disputed by ecologists as to its helpfulness for biodiversity. Have a read of the below. Guardian journalist George Monbiot.

https://www.monbiot.com/2023/03/17/meatwashing/

By the way I agree with completely wild animals on land.

Here is a video which clarifies the point way better than I can!

Becuase many if them preach and try to force thwir ways upon us normal people.

😂😂 I don’t feel guilty at all for eating meat/dairy!

People criticise and attack anything that threatens them or their worldview . Specifically with climate change and animal cruelty on the radar, I suspect there are lots of people who realise that veganism could be a very good thing, but it’s easier for them to knock the vegans.

I feel the same about people criticising anti-vaxxers. The reality is several of the so-called conspiracy theories have been proven to be true, and these people who fought hard to have their views heard, including doctors who were sidelined and struck off, have now performed a public service and being found to be right

I do agree people eat too much meat. 1 portion of red a week is enough and 2 portions of fish is needed to stay fit and healthy.
I stick to that once a week we eat one type of red meat and 2 portions of oily fish. And with loads of veggies and pulses and carbs etc.
I do not over consume. I would not purchase any take aways and wr on my way out 3 / 4 times a year max.

Thanks.

Thing is though, lots of farmed animals never see the outside. Even so called free range chickens are mostly inside a big barn.

I always think of those horrible factory farms with cattle in the US too, where they are outside but...knee high in their own waste.

Done right in a crop rotation cycle though animals can improve the soil if course.

The writing of James Rebanks is helpful here too. English Pastoral/A Shepherd’s Life.

As for animal husbandry in the UK, watch LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY for a true perspective. It is all filmed in the UK.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7214598/

This absolutely. There has been a different shift now and most pubs only offer vegan food - usually vegan burgers and they are vile.

I used to love a good old Macaroni and Cheese - it's rare to get one now - so sad

Possibly because so many of them are sanctimonious little whatsits who insist on boring people with an explanation (usually unasked for) of their beliefs coupled with an attack on anyone who does not subscribe 100% to them.

Having said that I do know a few vegans who are perfectly charming and who keep their views and opinions to themselves in company.