GP surgeries discriminating against kids

[Shwish]

Is there anyone I can complain to about this? I think it's outrageous AIBU?
We just moved to a new area. Signed up with a GP who just told me that the system they work is - book online for routine appointments, call up at 8 for urgent - they only release a few a day, or submit an eConsult for GP to be triaged and they'll fit you in urgently if they feel it's necessary. Great! EXCEPT that doesn't apply to kids. For kids you call at 8 and if you're lucky you might get one of the golden "urgent" appointments. When I asked if that meant in practice that kids often didn't get seen when needed because of the lack of triage for them the receptionist admitted that was he case and if I was worried and thought they needed to be seen I should take them to the hospital. BUT ADULTS DONT HAVE TO DO THAT! They get triaged and seen if needed. Why? How is this right? I dont know if something is serious or not a lot of the time because I'm not medically trained. And kids can go downhill so bloody quickly
I tried another surgery and they have that same system.
It seems mental. And ageist frankly. Imagine if they said the same about any other group.
And frankly the age group that's going to be hardest to wait patiently for hours at the hospital is surely toddlers? Luckily my kids are ten so probably could handle waiting a bit better.

You need to put in a formal written complaint to the surgery if you are not happy with their services then escalate the complaint through the proper channels. Do not accept a phone call ask that all correspondence is in writing.

In the meantime, if your child needs an appointment, I would call 111 they will advise you what to do or arrange for you to see a GP. Do not turn up at hospital. A&E is for accidents and emergencies, they are under enough pressure without dealing with minor complaints.

Yeah that’s shocking
and surely discrimination? Christ, if another group was discriminated like that in the same way, such as the elderly all hell would break lose! Kids should be prioritised imo as they’ve just started their lives and are more vulnerable than adults in some situations.

That does sound like kids will slip through, bizarre

the elderly are very disadvantaged with the
current system already, digitally excluded

I agree with calling 111.

Surely the idea behind not putting in e-consults for kids is that children SHOULD be seen and not triaged from a distance between a GP and a parent - meaning the whole e-consult is unnecessary as it would lead to an urgent appointment every time anyway.

The problem is more that they don't have enough urgent appointments.

We have similar in that you need to phone for 16 and under. But with our surgery you have an option for children when you phone in and I assume they are prioritised as I’ve always had a fast response when calling about my DC. Like within a couple of hours in the day.

It's probably something that started with good intentions (to offer children emergency appointments without triage) and ended up having the opposite effect.

No the point is they will see children on the day as a priority. You can discuss maybe with one if the GPs why they can't be pre booked in. Although most children's conditions are infections etc ie acute by nature there are a few occasions when you might want a pre booked appt. Eg bed wetting or constipation, behavioural problems. However they might want to triage all the children on the day as policy as children esp young children are triaged / seen as priority. They will see all children ftf under two in the day.

It's the same with my GP, although it barely matters as they will close e-consult daily by 9am saying it's full, try tomorrow, same
As phone calls by 9 as well.

My work benefits has a videocall non urgent gp facility, so we use that where we can, and we normally end up with an out of ours appointment 40min drive away (son gets a lot of chest infections. Born early).

These schemes probably are meant to further safeguard children's health but in reality they are further disadvantaged.

I don't really understand why the system is leading to kids not being seen.

Both adults and kids can participate in the 'free for all' at 8am. If the urgent appointments are all gone by, say, 8.15, then surely nobody on the triage system is getting seen that day either? And if that's not the case and people on the triage system are getting seen, that surely means that there are urgent appointments left, which could be taken by a child?

Unless what you're saying is that the receptionists are refusing all parents who want an urgent appointment for their child, on the basis that they can't go on the triage list?

It sounds like a silly system but many GPs have silly systems. My surgery prioritises all children over all adults - I can never get an urgent appointment as an adult and it drives me mad.

It is so difficult to get an appointment for my kids at our GP that their "standard" GP is now the out-of-hours GP that we're sent to by 111. We know the people there better than the staff at our actual GP practice.

I'm thinking of deregistering the kids from our GP so at least the surgery doesn't continue to pocket money for providing them with precisely zero services most of the time, but they're useful for reminding us that vaccinations are due (which we usually get done privately, due to a lack of available appointments with the nurse at the GP).

Our GP is 100% e consult triage, all ages. They keep the system open until 11am, and have reserved late slots if anyone needs to be seen or called urgently on the day.

My Gp will always squeeze in a child. Even if there aren’t appointments. They don’t advertise this though. I’d leave it unless you run into a situation where you feel dc need to be seen but aren’t tbh. Then I’d call 111 for advice and complain.

Yeah this is odd! My GP you can ring any time for kids and its the same as adults.

Well I've only just joined so I dont know how it works in practice but it was explained as routine, urgent (only a few available and patients DECIDE it's urgent, no triage) or eConsult with triage so GP will decide from that whether red (seen on the day) orange - within 72 hours or green call back with a routine within 2 weeks. But THAT triage system isn't available for kids. They are only allowed the pre-book online - I guess for vaccines or asthma review etc or the few emergency ones that could well all be taken already, including by adults who ALSO have the triage available as well. Mental.

My guess is that in practice urgent appointments will be reserved for children. There's a fairly predictable number of kids with high temps, odd rashes etc needing to be seen urgently every day and those need to be f2f so if they hold back say 40 out of 100 f2f appts for children and book those separately then if they are not all used they can be released to adults later in the day. Meaning if anything the system disadvantages adults slightly. But children with worrying symptoms should get seen quickly.

Because anyone with an actual sick kid goes down there when they open and sits in the waiting room til seen. Doctors always prioritise sick children, always, if they are sick. Plus no one will tolerate an 18th month old screaming with an ear infection for more than about 10 minutes space will be made. It's not that they don't prioritise children, they just know that parents with a real sick kid will bring them there as a priority, not grumble about how outraged they are over the phone.

Also kids shouldn't wait to be triaged at a GP surgery, they are right. If you are concerned enough to think you need immediate medical attention for a child and the GP can't deal immediately then you should take them to hospital instead, to be on the safe side.

The bottom line is, there aren't enough appointments and there's no 'priority system' that can create appointments from nothing.

Jesus. This is a ridiculous comment. How do you know if something needs seeing urgently or not WITHOUT triage? For example my son had what looked like a scrape on his back a while back. There's no WAY I'd have taken him to the hospital for it because it looked like a scrape. But my husband thought it seemed like it had been red for quite a while without healing (I didn't really notice if I'm honest) so because he was a little bit concerned we agreed I'd just do an eConsult to put our minds at rest. Ie GP sees photo, says nope that's fine, we don't waste anyone's time. Except it wasn't fine. It was infected with strep a, and the GP noticed it didn't look right straight away from the photo and called me to bring him in urgently for a swab and antibiotics.
WITHOUT the triage it would have got a lot worse than that before I'd have thought to take him in.
Sepsis COULD have been the end result.
And no, you don't just take sick kids to a surgery and sit there and wait to be seen. Doesn't work like that. They'd just tell you to take them to a walk in centre or call ambulance if it was an actual emergency.

But there should be a triage for kids if adults get that surely? Or otherwise only kids get allocated the 8am appointments. Adults HAVE to do an eConsult. But the 8am slots are for whoever gets through first and only adults can also use the triage system.

Assume urgent = needs seeing same day and go for that.

they're probably trying to avoid having loads of sick kids e-consult requests sitting in an inbox not being looked at if it's a busy morning precisely because kids get sick quickly. If you're worried that they need seeing that day and there's no appointment via their usual route then you probably do need to go to ED/minor injuries/whatever other service. They will be triaged there. It's not ideal, but nothing is anymore. At least kids tend to have internet literate parents.... feel much worse for the old folk who have next to no chance these days.

I would see how it works in practice first then complain. More than once I've been sat in a waiting room at 5.30 waiting for the GP to finish their scheduled clinic to fit in my daughter who dared to get poorly enough for a same day GP visit after 8.02 so missed out on a gp appointment in a call at 8 surgery.

Our surgery now run an econsult form open at 6 am and I would say it has been a vast improvement so I do get your annoyance that it's not available to kids. Even simple appts for UTIs in my daughter have been easier as the GP requests we collect a sample pot prior to the appointment so we can bring a sample with us from the comfort of our home rather than trying to persuade a 4 year old to wee on demand in a strange toilet and into a weird plastic cup!

My surgery doesn’t allow any online bookings at all. It’s the Hunger Games at 8.30 and usually 100+ calls before you get to speak to someone. Quite often there are no appointments left that day so you have to go through the same again the next day.
You cannot go down to the surgery, they will just send you away.
If you do manage to see a doctor and the doctor says come back in 7 days on the way out you would think that you would be able to make a follow up appointment but no. You have to go away and call again on the day the doctor wants to see you and then see if you can get an appointment.
The system is completely broken, and they keep adding to the problems by allowing more houses to be built so more patients and so it gets worse.

Thank you for realising that about the oldies. I just don’t know how they are managing, I can’t fathom all the changes sometimes! And I’m so IT literate! It’s a massive social exclusion.

I agree it's shit for old people as well. In fact I'd imagine that for the most part the 8am appointments are probably taken by elderly callers who can't do the eConsult because they're not computer literate, but who would otherwise have been completely happy to have been triaged and given red, orange or green status.
Meaning that they are more likely (through no fault of their own) to be taking the emergency ones when they don't need an actual urgent, they just can't do an online booking, leaving even less access for kids. What a bloody mess.