Mums debt - is this irresponsible lending?

[deltaguns]

Hi,

I actually posted about this a while ago but I need some further clarification/perspective. Please can I ask that if you respond, it's to answer my questions and not to flame/criticise my mum - We already know that this is not an ideal situation.

Mum is 75 and widowed. She was struggling financially over a year ago but was too proud to tell us. At that point she had about 10K in credit card debt. She applied for a further card from the a different bank ( mainstream bank). She applied online but received an error message. She reattempted later on and it worked. A week later two cards arrived - the exact same product. She was issued with two different customer numbers just one digit apart from each other.
She has run up a balance on both cards that is not affordable. We know that this has to be paid back and WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR IT TO BE WIPED. However I think that it was wrong/erronous of the company to allow two cards.
So my questions are -

1 - would it been a banking error to issue a customer two identical credit cards ( identical limits etc) on the same day?
2 - would this class as irresponsible lending
3 - mum's income is a pension and a very small private pension - I know that they can't discriminate for age but should this have not been considered
4 - would we have a change of getting the interest wiped?
We are currently waiting for a response and I have permission to speak to the bank on her behalf. I am disappointed that she didn't ask me for help earlier but I also feel that she has been treated unfairly.
I know that she should have cut one up/sent one back etc, but in the middle of some financial issues she made the wrong choice -surely they should never have issued these cards?

AIBU in thinking that this was irresponsible of the bank?

Didnt you post this same thing just a few weeks ago?

You’ve posted this is exact same thing before.

What are you hoping will be different about the replies this time?

I've read this so many times, including today, and you've had so many reasonable and helpful replies. I don't understand why you need more advice?

She says right the beginning of the post that she posted it before m.

@LizardLady but it's not just once - it's the same thing over and over and over. Copy and paste. And there's lots of helpful, useful guidance every single time. And every time the OP argues against it and starts another thread.

This is the third thread the OP has made about this issue today!

Not irresponsible of the bank to offer credit.

Irresponsible of your Mum to borrow more than she can afford, that's basic financial literacy.

What has she spent the money on? 2 cards was an error but no one held a gun to her head. Yes, she’ll have to pay the interest. I’m amazed she passed the credit check but presumably she did so not irresponsible?

1. no
2. no
3. no
4. no

Unless your Mum is formally declared to be incapable of managing her affairs and someone else takes over then she is responsible for the debt she incurs. If you know she is irresponsible where debt is concerned why didn't you do something about it. Blaming the back is ridicuous, it's like blaming a supermarket for selling fattening foods to an overweight person,

There are responsible lending rules that banks and credit providers have to abide by. Complain to the bank and then go to the Financial Ombudsman Service if you’re not happy with the bank’s response.

If you're going to keep posting until you get the answer you want, AIBU isn't the place to go.

Are you also the poster with a 76 YO DM who owes £18k on 5 credit cards or is that just a coincidence?

In any case, for both of you, this might be irresponsible lending, but if it is ruled this way, they might cancel some of the interest but she'll still have to pay back what she borrowed. If she can't afford to do that, she'll need to set up a payment plan or get advice about a formal debt solution if necessary.

If she's struggling to cover her living costs, has she applied for pension credit or is downsizing to free up money to live on, if she owns her own home, as well as reducing her living costs an option?

As you've already been told multiple times, she spent on both cards and therefore owes the money.

If a mistake had genuinely been made, a normal person would have spent on one and not the other, even if they couldn't be bothered to close the second account.

She has consciously chosen to run up debts on two cards. She obviously qualified for both or wouldn't have been issued them.

At this point I don't even believe she's telling you the truth about it, she probably just applied for 2.

Why do you keep copying and pasting the same thread multiple times when you don’t like the answers you get? You clearly don’t like the advice you’re getting so why keep repeating the same thing

Going back over 20 years but we lived in a famously poverty stricken area and my friend had a slimey door to door salesman knock clearly to take advantage of a desperate area. With a big banking patter for some high interest 'loan shark' type banking company, they asked no questions and a pushy attitude they signed her straight up for a 'credit' card in minutes... Except she was only 15.

It had a set small balance (only like £50 or £100) more like love2shop type gift cards but insanely high interest (the type where the interest grows quicker than it could ever be paid back by people that need to borrow such low amounts).

When debt collectors came and discovered that she was legally well under the age to have been given any kind of 'credit' in the first place the whole thing got wiped as it was deemed the lenders fault.

So things can be discarded if the lender is in the wrong and failed to do checks. They have a responsibility to do income availability checks etc... to make sure anything is affordable and repayable. How did they miss two cards being issued? the first card should effect her ability to qualify for the second which is their mistake.

OP, maybe you could contact Stepchange or somewhere similar for advice on how to proceed with this.

I've read your other thread, and there's no point in us speculating about whether it was irresponsible, you need to find out what rights/responsibilities the bank has and your mother has.

An organisation like Stepchange can give you that information, as well as help with a reasonable repayment plan.

1 - would it been a banking error to issue a customer two identical credit cards (identical limits etc) on the same day? probably
2 - would this class as irresponsible lending No.
3 - mum's income is a pension and a very small private pension - I know that they can't discriminate for age but should this have not been considered it was, as was the fact she has sizeable assets and the fact she has historically good credit...hence was approved for the CC
4 - would we have a change of getting the interest wiped? Possibly. It would be easier to just switch to a 0% card.

You are being given bad advice here!!

You may well be able waive the interest. I'm surprised they gave her any credit card on a small pension to be honest.

You should either write or call the bank and explain that you want to raise a formal complaint and why you think your mum has been leant to irresponsibly (you may have to get her to confirm you are acting on her behalf). They are then required to look into it and issue a formal response. If you don't agree you can escalate to Financial Ombudsman (FOS) who will have someone impartial look at it and they will tell you if it's irresponsible lending or not.

It's not a big deal they will get these all the time and will be nice! Your mum doesn't have to be incompetent for it to be irresponsible lending, if she couldn't afford it and they could see that on application (or issued 2 by mistake) then that would count as irresponsible and you would get interest back.

It’s irresponsible of your mother to use both cards.

Does she lack capacity to understand what she's doing regarding her finances? If so you should be applying to the court of protection to get guardianship over her affairs. You may be able to use this to demonstrate these last two cards were irresponsible lending.

If she does have capacity then the person to blame is your mother. She needs to step up take responsibility, cut up her cards etc. My hunch is that she does know what she's doing but doesn't care as she thinks she won't ever pay the principal back just the interest

I’m confused about the cards. If it’s two cards with the same account number then any spending would just go to one account and against one credit limit? But it would be strange to have 2 valid cards for the same account unless one was a replacement for one about to expire.

Are the numbers on the cards identical? What statements does she receive for these accounts ? Have you checked them?

OP, I sense you are very stressed, hence the multiple posts, however I don't think that anything we can say will reassure you - It really is just a case of waiting until the final response arrives.

From what you have written I agree that this does sound like irresponsible lending. I would be surprised if there isn't some support offered here.

1. they would not know it’s the same person necessarily as two applications have been completed and a lot if the process is automated
2. what income did your mother complete on her application and don’t you normally have to put outgoings on. What did she put
3. Have you checked her credit score? If it’s ok then cards will automate given

It’s not irresponsible lending. Your mother chose to apply do the buck stood with her

As to the interest all you can do is ask. She needs to contact CAB or stepchange or some other organisation to help her

hopefully you have cut up her cards and set up a budget with her

I was told by my bank that one isn't allowed two credit cards on the same account, two cards with different account numbers that is, not just a second card on the same credit card account.

if the OP’s mum has been sent 2 separate cards linked to two separate accounts with separate credit limits then on the face of it that could be construed as irresponsible lending. So basically two separate £10K limits.

I was sent a letter recently giving me a credit limit increase on one bank credit card account I had. In the meantime I had applied and been given a card from another bank. First bank then wrote and said my credit limit increase offer had been withdrawn due to the change in my borrowing profile. Banks generally seem to manage lending a lot more tightly than in the past. But mistakes must happen I suppose.